The Abyss (1989)

0:18 Hello, and welcome to the All Eighties Movies podcast podcast, where we talk about the blockbusters, love blocks and everything in between from one of the precious decades from movies, the nineteen eighties. I'm your host Bill banton along mcminis journey revisiting eighties movies. Is my co host Jason Matsek. Hello, Jason. I saw these things. I touched one of them and it wasn't some clunky steel can like we would build. It glided. It was the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen. Oh God, I wish you'd been there. It was a machine. It was a machine, but it was alive. It was like a dance of light. Please, you have to trust me. Now. I don't think they mean us any harm. I don't know how I know that. It's just that's right. Listeners, we're discussing with spoils a plenty.

1:04 The nineteen eighty nine science fiction undersea adventure The Abyss. It was produced and distributed by twentieth Century Fox. The movie stars Ed Harris, Mary, Elizabeth Master, Antonio, and Michael Been directed by James Cameron. This movie is rated PG thirteen, with a running time of two hours and twenty minutes. The movie was nominated for four Oscars for Best Cinematography, Best Art Direction, Set Direction, Best Sound, and one for Best Effects Visual Effects. We will be discussing the theatrical version of the movie for this episode. So what is this movie about? What's on the box? If you grew up in the nineteen eighties and what's your local video store to rent this movie? You would find this description on the back of the VHS box. It is What's in the box? Take it away?

1:48 Jason Writer, director James Cameron, and producer Gail Anne Hurd have teamed again to create this epic underwater adventure. When a nuclear missile sub mysteriously sinks, the Navy commandeers the crew of a civilian deep sea oil rig to help in the rescue operation. This perilous mission becomes a wondrous odyssey into the unknown as forces from the ocean's deepest region begin to make contact with the divers. For Bud Brigman Ed Harris and his estranged wife Lindsay Mary Elizabeth Masterntonio, it becomes also a test of their physical and emotional limits. Their journey into the endless night of the Ocean's deaths lays bare the human heart in an elemental confrontation between death, love, and something else, the strange inhuman watchers in the Abyss, Requiring the most complex underwater sets, photography, and special effects ever attempted. This science fiction thriller is suspenseful filmmaking at its best. There's everything you've ever known about adventure, and then there's The Abyss.

2:50 So that was what's on the box. Jason, do you remember when you first saw The Abyss? No, that's as plain as it gets. I do not. I don't have any early memories of who I was with, where I was. Nothing. I'm just going to defer to you on this one. This was a rental for me, but I really really wanted to see in the theater. Did you suit as a kid where you would root for a movie even though you didn't see it, You just hoped it did well based on maybe who was acting in it or who the director was. That's a great point, build Bands. Yeah, absolutely, a thousand percent. I mean I wished I had seen this in the theater. I can't remember a damn thing. I really don't know if I did or not in the theater, but I knew, of course it was a James Cameron film, and thus, yes, I was rooting for it. But that's interesting to think back as a kid, you would just be a fan of filmmakers, actors, etc. And just yeah, want it to do well, regardless of seeing it or not, because you knew eventually you would get around and seeing it.

3:47 Right, Yeah, exactly. So let's talk about the movie. What are our impressions of the abyss. Yeah, let's get right into it. Man, I'm going to read you what I wrote down. This is what I was feeling before I even rewatched this film. This is a movie I really like, but don't necessarily adore, but immensely respect, and strangely, I've visited it more than a few times over the years. However, I this is what I wrote, Bill. I have trouble recalling the smaller moments outside of the visitation from the Alien Race and the contentious relationship between Ed Harris and Mary Elizabeth Masfrontonio. Ed Harris throng is ring in the toilet, the magical fluid that allows you to breathe inside under the water. It allows you to breathe that great depths the testing of the liquid with the mouse Michael Bean being a Navy sealed dickhead and succumbing to the pressure sickness ed Harris making the deep dive descent. So I'm ready to all of this. Okay, wait, wait, actually I remember a shit ton like this is like I remember everything from this movie. Clearly, I like it very much, so I thought that was interesting because it but I do kind of have this strange it's not even love hate. It's almost an indifference to this movie. And I'm not sure why, and I'm not sure if I figured it out. Actually on this I just really really did enjoy watching it again and I keep coming back to it, so clearly there's a part of me that really really appreciates this film. So my impression today is like, it's still a banger. We'll get into all the reasons why. But what were your

5:18 impressions upon the rewatch? This isn't James Carmon's best movie, Okay, Yeah, for me, it's my favorite movie. There you go, Okay, because I love submarine movies, and granted there's only small scenes that happen at submarine, but just that claustrophobic element of being under the sea, I just love it. I love the characters. It's like the premise of it. Yeah, the ending doesn't quite stick the landing, but even watching the special edition, which is still another thirty minutes, this just flies by. I just like everything about it is a fun movie, and you really see watching this how it's the blueprint for Cameron's future films T two, Titanic, Avatar. You see all of that in this movie, which is kind of cool to see where the grassroots were, especially when you think about nineteen eighty nine was the year of the undersea adventure. We had Deep Start six, we had Leviathan that we covered, and then the Roger Corman contribution Lords of the Deep, which I did watch for some reason.

6:22 I don't know why you can skip that one for sure. Yeah, there's just something about this movie I adore and I remember when I got it on VHS and I couldn't wait until I came out on DVD or Blu ray, and it just never did. Cameron wasn't a big fan of it, so I didn't get to watch it as much as I wanted to. But luckily I did find a copy and I just put it in and next thing I know, I'm like, holy crap, it's over. And even with all the quirky characters, and a lot of them don't have a lot of develop but I thought there wasn't like anybody that was over the top quirk mm hmm. I found everyone interesting. Yeah, and even though you just got a little bit about them, I mean more was developed in the special edition. But I really like the characters of this. I thought Ed Harris and Mary Elizabeth master Antonio were really good in this. It really made me think about Mary Lizabeth Masterton, like, why mm hmm did she not do more? I mean she had a string of hits and then she kind of faded.

7:22 Yeah. Yeah, I really liked her in this. So I'm trying to remember all of the great points you just made because I want to touch on each one of them and talk about all the I've listed everything you just said for myself. I like the fact that you use the word adore. You adore this, and I was saying that I didn't necessarily adore it, but I respect it. And I think you nailed it on the head when you were just discussing the concept because I was thinking about the beginning to this. Of course, I just love this great opening with where you just hear the ping sound effect and then the great title card comes up with that great music. Let's give a shout out to Alan Silvestri. I'm a big fan. I've collected his scores over the years, so that's all real strong. And then of course when you see that title card, all I think is that great Frederick Nietzsche quote and if you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. That's one of my favorite quotes. And then we have this great initial action sequence and this is going to be coming back to what you were talking about with the aspects of this concept and the claustrophobic nature and that you like the submarine films, because as soon as this intense opening happens where the submarine crashes into the side, the wall of Nann becomes flooded and you see, it's like, oh my god, all my fears are realized and it's so intense and anxiety inducing.

8:34 And that's just what this does for you. As far as that excitement. You said, this is fun and exciting, and that's exactly what it is and what most submarine films have made well are. I'm a big Crimson Tide fan. Hunt for our October again. Another classic. But this is definitely up there with the great sub or let's say sub underwater submersible floating platform movies, if you will. And it's the freaking concept man, Like I said, okay, and I remember watching it going there's this submersible drilling platform. There's an oil rig on the ocean floor. I loved Cameron's futuristic vision of what could be done or be capable of being accomplished in the future underwater, as far as exploration or in this case, digging for oil. But it's that horror aspect man, the fear factor being that deep underwater. It's just a great backdrop for a thriller.

9:26 Like you said, the claustrophobia, the pressure literally and figuratively seems like bud and catfish swimming from one underwater hatch to another underneath the platform in freezing water, nonetheless holding your breath. The fear of drowning. There's just too many ways to die. Build this way too. The nervous disorder, Yeah, implosion, freezing, having a door blown out off its hinges and directly into you. That's a whole that's a like I'm like, uh ah, but yeah, so I'm glad you touched on that, because that's one of the first things I just want to say, and that's probably why I I always end up coming back to this movie and rewatching it is because the idea is great. And then I'm also thinking you touched on the cast. So it's interesting because I was making comparisons to Aliens, which is the predecessor to this, and how we adore that ensemble cast, right, And you can probably name a lot of those characters because they seem to be so specific. Obviously Michael Bean, but then Bill Paxton, I could go down the list of the names.

10:24 So you have another ensemble cast here. Are they quite as memorable as the cast from Aliens? Maybe not, but they all kind of hold their own and they have their moments and they're still fun. So James Cameron, let's talk about him for a second. I was in high school when this came out, and I was already a big Cameron fan the Terminator Aliens. Of course, Bill bed did you know Cameron wrote the initial draft for Rambo First Blood Part two? Yes, only because when we were doing our prep for First Blood and I was looking into the other movies. I don't know if I ever did that love that. But I'm thinking this is really his third, big, big tent pole type of movie, right, it's his fourth directorial feature if you consider Piranha two The Spawning is really his first directorial effort. But man, it's wild because he's directed what ten features in total, and I'm not including like the deep sea exploration films and shorts and videos and such. I mean, you can look at his filmography, but James Cameron is a titan in the business, and you think he directed more exactly, but it's ten. It's just the ten.

11:27 But then you think about his process, and especially for this movie YEP, where they found a tank and had everybody get certified as divers and then film hours hours underwater, such a troubled production. Ed Harris and Mary Elizabeth Master Antonia will not talk about this movie whatsoever. It's wild. Yeah, yeah, we'll touch upon it. I think a little bit in trivia. But you're right, I don't know if it's true or not. But supposedly At Harris punched James Cameron at one point. You know, actually, Michael be and I listened to him on another podcast interview where he tells the story of being in the tank and the power goes out, yes, and they're all in their wetsuits and whatnot, scuba di and then it just shuts down and it's like you're in pitch black. What do we do now? But luckily power came back on. So yeah, just to stick with Cameron for a moment, I had a question for you, and it's something that arose for me in the beginning of this film. As entertaining as it is right from the jump, I am not always crazy about Cameron's writing. Now we know he pens all his films like it's either him or maybe one other person that writes the screenplay. He's usually credit for the screenplay, and I sometimes the exposition feels a little forced or two on the nose. It's just sometimes the dialogue bugs me a little bit, and it's either simplicity or generic.

12:46 In the beginning, when they're trying to establish the characters, we get to meet Bud Brigman, who's the foreman on this underwater soil rig. And now it's like, okay, here comes Lindsay his now well his wife, but they're separated and they're going through a divorce. Supposedly, we get the great Chris Elliott in a supporting role, calling her a queen bitch of the universe. What a great, great thing. It's like, it's so obvious. It's like, okay, some of the dialogue is kind of feeding you these relationships through the words instead of showing you, and it's pretty obvious as to how they feel about one another. I don't know, how do you feel about Cameron's dialogue overall? I didn't have an issue with it, Okay. I think the only scene that bugged me in the beginning is when Lindsay and the seals are in the tank and she's just kind of going over the pressure sickness m hm, and he keeps interrupting him being a dick. Yes, that was maybe a little too on the nose.

13:40 Correct, Yes, yes, yes, yes, there it is that that you're you're getting closer to what I was not saying properly. Yeah, but I do get it because we as an audience need to know what's going to happen to his character later on, So she has to say that and he keeps interrupting her. So that's yeah, that felt a little forced. Yeah, okay, yeah, that's one of those things. As soon as she yeah, she as soon as she brings up the high pressure nervous syndrome or something like that HPNS. Is that something? Is that correct that I actually come close? But yeah, as soon as she brings that up, you're like, oh, well that's coming into play right, you know later that's pretty right on the mark there. That's that's gonna be a big deal later on. But great cast. We talked about the ensemble cast, but let's talk about Michael Bean for a moment, if we If you want to men for me on this rewatch, he's the standout. I've always been a huge fan of his.

14:32 I already knew going into this, of course, that he's a prick in this movie. But man, something happened to me. I don't know during this having I haven't seen it in a while. I felt like he was a little bit of a sympathetic character. He comes down with this syndrome and he's going through hell, and I really appreciated his performance as that pressure anxiety that he was succumbing to was really getting to the shaking would get worse. There's a great scene he has with Mary Elizabeth Masfromtonio where you know she's upset because they brought the warhead on board the nuclear warhead onto the platform, and she's really pissed, of course, and he has the gun behind his back and he's keeping like this low tone, trying to keep calm, but he's sweating and he's shaking. At the same time, I'm like, damn, dude. I mean, he's had a great career, but still, man, I always thought he should have been more. I just I love that guy.

15:26 I appreciated his performance a lot in this. I couldn't get beyond the mustache. I didn't know what's going on with that thing. I didn't get some scissors strimming up. It was just like strings, We're just hanging off his face. I don't know what was going on. There, all right, all right. I always forgot that he at one point starts slicing up his arm. He's a cutter. At one point, Oh yeah, starts cutting. That's hardcore. I'm like, oh damn, I totally forgot about that. But I think I always love when you identify a character with the movie Michael Bean. You think of the Terminator, he's the good guy and he sacrifices himself to save the future, and then you see him in this and then he's the bad guy, and you're like, oh, come on, man, be the good guy.

16:10 It sucks because he's not only terminated, but then he's Hicks and Aliens. He's a hero in. That too, exactly and now and this is the exact opposite, and you're like, oh, this kind of sucks. I want to be a good guy. Why can't it be part of the oil rig or something. Yeah. Then of course he's in Tombstone. He's so great in that too. Yes, he is a bad guy. So Johnny is it? Johnny Ringo? Is that Johnny Ringo? Yeah? So love us some Michael Bean, Mary Elizabeth mas Antonio. I was like, wait a minute, what else? What has she done? Oh yeah, just had a hell of a run in the eighties Scarface, The Color of Money, January Man, Class Action, Robin Hood Prints, The Thieves, The Perfect Storm. After the eighties, not too shabby. She was in some great stuff, I don't know, underrated, underappreciated.

16:55 She's an Oscar nominee. Yeah, and she just kind of vanished. Yeah the recent times. I mean, she was on the Punisher series and then she's been doing Law and Order organized crime. So she's still working, right, but still very much under the radar at the same time, and has been kind of that way for years now. Yeah, I felt that way too. I just kind of watched him like, yeah, she should have been doing some moret stuff. I don't know, maybe his personal life stuff. She's really in some good films, oh yeah, but not as much as I felt like she should have been in. Agreed. And then of course we have the man, and I mean the man, Ed Harris. Just can't get enough of him. Oh yeah. He's just so solid and believable as that hard working blue collar every man, but yet handsome enough to be the leading man and always convincing. I don't think I've ever seen it, Ed Harris. I performance I didn't care for exactly.

17:46 I couldn't think of anything. Even more recent times like Maverick. He's great in the beginning of that every time. He's just an actor that is always welcome. Whenever he pops up on screen, you're like, hell, yeah, give me more Ed Harris. And I just wanted to say I love the fact that after he goes to retrieve the wedding ring he threw down the toilet, that his hand is blue the entire time. Oh yeah, this entire film. His hand is blue. Yeah, he is super solid in this. Yeah, fantastic, Bud Virgil Bud Brigman got to talk about the effects very quickly. I mean, this was a game changer, you mentioned it. Overall, I felt the alien creature design was wonderful. It's like Close Encounters of the third kind two point oho or even three point zero. The creatures look fantastic and they're mesmerizing, just as our characters and our heroes are watching, you know, being witnessed to these creatures, and they're just jaw dropped in awe. That's how you feel when you're watching it, especially for the first time.

18:43 The water tentacle of course, which I'll touch on later, that's like, okay, like you said, laying the groundwork, and it's just really cool to watch. And I feel like it still holds up for the most part. The CGI the effects are pretty pretty damn good, especially man like nineteen eighty nine, Oh yeah, freaking Cameron. There's not that much in its special effects wise, when I'm like, ooh, yeah, that needs to be updated. I would say ninety percent of it still holds pretty well. And I do remember, I know we're going to talk about the water tentacle scene later, but every entertainment show have a segment about how they did that. I remember that was on all summer long. Every program we'll talk about how they did that effect and computers, and it was really the cutting edge. And because of that movie, you know, we get Jurassic Park, we get T two.

19:31 So that was really the stepping stone right there. That was really the biggest jump we had with computer technology because it looked. So real, groundbreaking. I know, what other words descriptors do you want to use, but we had never seen anything like that before and that's the fact, and that is one of the major standouts of the movie. So yeah, like I said, you know, have had a strange relationship as far as my passion for this film, But yet I can't not watch it repeatedly. So I don't know what's tugging or pulling at me and my feelings about it. But Cameron Movies, Man, The Terminator, Aliens, True Lies, those are my favorites. I've never been a huge Titanic fan. Titanic Oh oh, I've been saying it wrong exactly. Wow, that's embarrassing. But again, it's like one of those films where I respect the achievement. Here's Cameron groundbreak and you just never seen anything like this before, So just sit back and enjoy it for the the scope of it.

20:25 But yeah, if anything, it's I think I just sometimes have issues with his writing, and I'll just kind of leave it at that. The last thing I'll say is regarding my initial thoughts. I was watching this Bill Benton, I was making an Armageddon comparison. Did Armageddon kind of take this idea of space? It cross my mind, Yes it did. You got some similarities here, right, A military mission recruits oil riggers to do the big job. All hell breaks loose, people die, the foreman has to sacrifice himself to prevent the mass destruction. Similar themes, hmm, yeah, but all on the nose there. Last thing I would just mentioned is just a deep itself. What amazing sets. I just love their walking down hallways and there's just a valve sticking out in the hall.

21:06 I'm like, why is that sticking out like that? And someone runs into it? That makes no sense, But just all twisted pipes and metal and you got your steel doors and everything. And then even there where they launched the subs forward, that room was just so cool. Oh the moon pool. Yeah, just all the little details that no one's really gonna notice. It is all there on screen. I'm sure if I asked Cameron what was this pipe for, he would know the answer. Correct. He most likely that's. The way he works, And everything was in there for a reason. Yeah, because there's that one scene when Lindsay first comes on and she's turning all these valves. She's like, oh, why is this here? Like this, like she knows exactly where to go and with the check and she turns the one and then Bud goes back and turns it back because it's like, well, he's been down here, so he knows. She thinks she knows what it is on paper, but he knows what it is being down there. So I always found that fun.

21:58 It's great. I'm glad you gave it a shadowt just because obviously it was nominated for our direction and set and all that stuff deservedly. So I'm when you get into the research on this film, it is immense. It's lengthy and it's detailed and it's wonderful, but you just get a real appreciation for how much work was put into this and how much time and man hours and et cetera. But when you're watching it, you're right. It's attention to detail. We talked about it on our Aliens pod. It was the same thing with all the detail, and we talk about it with any Star Wars film, and like the Classic trilogy What I Love Like you go inside the Millennium falcon and there's just blinking lights and levers and buttons and things that twist and turn all over the place and I don't know what they are, and some of them just look like blinking lights. But it looks like it has a purpose. And you made an interesting comment when you said you probably wouldn't notice it or even think about it. But that's the point.

22:50 The thing is, if it wasn't there, you would notice because it wouldn't feel real. True. So, yeah, this is a movie I wish I had seen on the big screen. I'm hoping the opportunity will come up someday. If it does, I'm all over it. Yeah, it's a great time. And that's where I'm gonna end my initial thoughts commentary here is that I had a blast with it, and yes, it went by in the blink of an eye. It's a very, very fun, easy watch. Yeah, okay, let's move on to favorite scenes or moments. What were some of your favorite scenes or moments from the ABYSS. Yeah, let's talk about it. I think you and I have the same first one, correct. We do? Yes? We do? Do you want you want to start? Do you want me to start? Oh?

23:31 You could start? All right, I'm just simply calling this scene the crane drops the crane. Yeah. So at this point in the film, Hurricane Frederick also know as just Hurricane fred is throwing the Explorer support ship. The Explorer is this ship that is on the surface. It's being tossed all over the place due to this hurricane. And it's called the support ship because there's like this umbilical cable cord that is extending from the crane aboard this support ship all the way down miles down into the deep and it's connecting to the deep Core submersible, which is the oil rig the submersible platform, I should say, it's a giant platform where our oil riggers are working in this crew led by Ed Harris and the support ships being shook around and the deep Core. They can't disengage or disconnect the umbilical cord because good old Michael Bean is one of the Navy seal well, he's the Navy Seal lieutenant has taken off with the flatbedsmercible, which is the only thing that can disconnect the cable, and so when the hurricane's tossing the support ship around, now all hell breaks and it basically jars this crane loose off of the support ship.

24:46 It breaks off, snaps off, sinks down, and almost hits the deep core platform. It's just a really super intense scene where you're just kind of literally and figuratively holding your breath really close calls and just scares the head out again. Anxiety inducing. I mean, it's the scene is It's like a ten to fifteen minute scene. It feels like, oh yeah, just no. According to the book, the crane operator dies. In case anyone's wondering if you survived or not, I was wondering that actually when I when they lose communications with the explorer and don't know what's going on, and then the explorer's able to get a hold of them a short wave and say the crane is coming. The crane is coming, and then you just see the I don't even know what it is.

25:32 The umbilical cord, just the thing and just listening to it and just fold on each other and like holy shit, and then brace for impact and everybody's running around getting prepped, running through each other like perfectly, like they've been drilled. And part of me is almost like they might have been better off that the crane actually hit them. Yeah, totally. Because then the crane hits the ground, they're all like who made it? And then it tumbles over the abyss, pulls the umbilical cord with them and then pulls them almost to the themselves at almost getting pulled over, which causes so much damage. Hm. It's a crazy scene. It's a crazy scene like it first relieved and then the crane's just sitting there on the edge and they're like whoo and they're like, oh shit, oh there it goes yeah.

26:16 Oh man. It's such a great moment. And this is this is good filmmaking, This is good tension building. This is all extremely exciting and like so the crane drops and you're like, oh crap, it's going to land on top of the platform and who knows what it would just break through and then water's coming in and all these things. One of the but you mentioned like the sound. The sound design is brilliant because his sonar is picking up the crane as it's dropping through the ocean towards them and potentially on top of them. And you just hear the ping going boom boo boo boo boo boo boo as it's getting closer and closer, a little reminiscent maybe of a motion tracker from aliens maybeways the aliens get closer, boo boo boop. So yeah, great sound design.

26:56 When that thing goes over the edge and almost drags them off the cliff, all hell breaks loose. Now there is water coming on board the vessel. And this is again when we come to like worst fears realized. Like I was just going to ask you what's your for? You know, the worst fear when being underwater, because being a submarine in an enclosed space like that and filling up with water and you can't shut the door in time behind you, and then you just overcome with these huge waves coming in because all the pressure, and then you drown or maybe you even do close the hatch and the hatch comes off its hinges and blows apart at like at one hundred miles an hour. It hits you in the face, like, I'm like, this is what happens in the scene. Super intense.

27:41 Yeah, as much as I like submarine movies, there's no way I would ever go on one though. Yeah, I don't know how those people did it. Hats off to them. I just want to give a shout out to one moment in the scene too, which is great. So you know, these compartments aboard this oil rig platform are filling with water because the hull has been breached, and so they need to get from one apartment to the one compartment is flooding. They need to get out, close the door behind them to seal that off in order for the next compartment not to fill with water. We see crew members die at Harris manages to get out, but then, oh, what happens is one of the doors I think because it automatically starts closing, he sticks his hand in there in his ring prevents it from closing because the ring. Yes, yes, that's a great moment. So the ring actually saves him, which he almost had thrown out and seen earlier down the toilet. I like that moment he gets out and he kisses the ring like, Oh my god, it's super super intense.

28:40 Oh yeah, that is fun. All right. Let us we have for favorite scenes next. I have the water Tentacle visit. This is the iconic scene we all know it. I won't go into too much detail. I just love again sound design the deep Core. The platform is entirely quiet. You get the sense it's night. You can't really tell under water, but it's Everyone is asleep, trying to get some rest, and we see the POV of something moving through the hallways of the deep Core platform, and then we start to see that it is a water tentacle. It literally looks like a tentacle, but just made of water, made of seawater. And at one point it actually opens the hatch door, which I don't know how it does, but comes into the compartment where Mary, Elizabeth Masmtonio Ned Harris that's Lindsey and Bud Brigman are sleeping, and they awaken and are obviously freaked out to see this alien water tentacle life form approaching them. And then it pauses and it imitates them. It mimics their face and their facial movements, smiling and such, and it's just like, how do they do that? How'd they do that? I appreciate the performances from Masimontonia Net Harris because of their just shock in awe, as well as the supporting cast when the others wake up as well. But it's just cool to watch the water move through the always through the compartments, and then even when Michael Bean is the asshole Navy seal lieutenant freaks out thinking it's the enemy somehow or a Russian tech invader, he closes one of

30:14 the hatch doors, chopping the water in half. In the water just then falls. A great scene. It's just all special effects and it still holds up today. It feels real. It just looks cool, especially the reflections off the water of the walls and then the people, and it's like, how the hell did they do that? So it changed everything. Yeah, it's a really fun scene and very groundbreaking. So another favorite scene and probably one of the most memorable scenes of the movie is the Lindsay drowning scene. Yeah, even today watching it, it still gives me a little bit of anxiety because Bud and Lindsay had to give chase to Michael Bean's character because he's going to drop a nuclear bomb. On the ntis the aliens that they discover trying to stop him from making it happen, but unfortunately the submersi wilder in has sprung a leak that they cannot stop and they only have one diving suit, and Lindsey comes up with the plan, which unfortunately does make sense, is that she'd have to drown. The water's cold enough to take her back to deep pore and they should be able to revive her. Because but it's a pretty good swimmer, and just that whole scene with them sitting in the sub waiting for it to fill.

31:29 I don't know if I could do that. I don't think I could do it worst night man. But it makes sense because people are like, well, don't they just start swimming. I'm like no, because she'd start panicking and he could possibly drop her swimming back, so they have to let it happen. Yeah, it's a powerful scene from her. She does great in it. It stresses me out, even though I know she's going to come back to the end. It's stressful. It really works. And here they are in this freezing cold water and he's like, he's telling her to think of something. He's like, I'm gonna have to drown. They don't have any better options. But luckily it works. It's awful and it's amazing, and the performances are brilliant, and it's so heart pounding and stressful, and it's literally heartbreaking.

32:10 I got very emotional throughout this entire sequence. Even though I knew it was coming, I forgot about the scene you just described so well happening within the submersible. I'm going to take it a step back and just mention there's like that whole scene when they are chasing or being chased by Lieutenant Coffee, that's Michael Bean's character and the other submersible. It's like demolition submersibles, but they get the best of Michael Bean. And there's a great moment when he loses power and his submersible starts falling through and deeper deeper into the ocean, and of course it comes to the pressure and he implodes. It's just like a great moment when he sees it coming, the glasses cracking and he just goes. That scene was kind of rough to watch, also, especially what happened with the Titan a couple of years ago, correct, and like, oh my god, that's what happened to those people.

32:57 Mm hmm. Hopefully it was quick, yeah, because that and that implosion is it's hardcore. So and then, of course, like you said, Bud and Lindsay aboard the other submersible they're taking out water. But the fact that the water's rising and they're trying to come up with ideas of how we got to think, think we can figure this out. But she's like, no, I have to. I can go into deep hypothermia. You can bring me back, you can bring me back. And it's so heartbreaking because you know, they love one another, so I mean their still husband and wife, and they've gone through so much throughout the film up to this point that when she's saying, he's like, no, no, there's got to be another way, and she's like, there is no other way. Then he actually puts the helmet on and is underneath the water and she's barely breathing, and then she gets scared. She's so strong and brave throughout the entire thing, but the water finally gets to where she or she's almost underwater, and you can see how scared she is, as any normal human being would be.

33:57 And then she goes under and drowns and he's just like no, and it's just like what, It's awful, and then he has to tow her back to deep Core, and so I'll just touch on this this entire scene. At the end, they bring her back aboard through the moon pool, on board the deep core platform and he's performing CPR and then they have the fibrulators and it's so into. Ed Harris is amazing in this scene because it is relentless. He's just trying to bring her back to life and there's just no signs of life coming from her and it's the charging, charging clear that hole.

34:39 We go through that process. The whole crew is huddled around them. She's not coming back and he won't give up. And at one point they're like there's no response, give up, and there's a real long pause, and then Ed Harris is like, no, she wants to live. And he pushes them back and he's like, let's zapp her again, and he yells at her, goddamn it, you bitch. You've never backed away from anything in your life. Now fight, and he actually slaps her and he keeps yelling fight, fight right now, do it, fight, goddamn it, fight, fight, fight, and it's just I love it. I got teary eyed, And of course she does then come back, she has revived, and it's pretty incredible. So I love. Yeah.

35:21 What I would say about the Vibe scene is I don't like the fact that he slaps her. And I'm sure any EMT would tell you the rest of the crew wouldn't be given up that early. I unfortunately, was a witness to a woman who had a heart attack and the EMTs came out to revive her forty minutes she was probably dead, but forty minutes they just kept doing whatever they could to try to bring her back. And then we're like, all right, that's it. Oh yeah. They brought out some machine that was literally like forty minutes punching into her chest to try to get it to work, and she was just lying her the whole time, and I'm like, oh my god, this is awful. So the five minutes they were working on Lindsey, I'm like, nope. So you're saying, for realism's sake, we should have it should have been a forty minutes. Well, I don't think they would have just right, I know, but I don't think they would have really given up as early as they did. Maybe he's just getting more frustrated.

36:09 Yeah, but although to me it feels like it does feel like a long time, even though you are absolutely correct it's technically not. You just wanted to come back to life already. Yeah, I don't think really the rest of the crew would have been like, oh, it's over, Bud. They would have kept working on her. Yeah. Yeah, well I thought I found it very emotional. Gotcha anything else? No, that's it for me. Oh yeah. The last thing I have is just the scene of Bud dropping down to the warhead and yeah, of course, going and going and going and going down, and then trying to communicate because he's using that flora car. I don't even I can't even say that word. Oxygenated floral carbon emulsion. Yes, it's the fluid breathing system.

36:51 Yeah, so he has that so he can't speak and he has to type everything out because he's going so deep. But just the pressure and everyone's trying to talk to him and he's trying to type. And it's how we have the courage to do something like that. I mean, it's a movie, but I mean it would have to be done because they would all die it's Flash Gordon. It's one life, one life for tens, well, no, maybe hundreds. We don't know how many of those alien creatures they are. But he's making the ultimate sacrifice. And just watch him just go down, down, down, because it's probably a sixteen foot wall that we see in pass like twelve times. But it's still for me intense. It is incredibly intense. It's something I always look forward to watching in this movie because the science fiction of it all. He's taking in that breathing fluid and then adjusts.

37:40 But it's smart filmmaking because of all the devices at play that they're really the time constraint, the typing instead of speaking, and because then he's getting colder and he's succumbing to the nervous disorder and the typing becomes incomprehensible, and it is one of the like the worst fear realized. You're just going to sink in blackness and darkness in the ocean for how many feet miles whatever. It's the scariest thing. Ever with hoping you will get to where you need to go. Yeah, because big Geek's supposed to lead him down to where the warhead is or little Geek is supposed to lead him down, correct, but then little Geek craps out and now now it's a crapshoot. They're going to find it.

38:24 Yeah, so many issues with that, but creates incredible tension and it's great because they're on board the deep Court speaking with him, and the dialogue is altered, like they're talking into the microphone so he can hear them, but he's just you know, responding by typing. All those little things just build it all and it's great. And obviously when he starts losing it as the deeper he goes and then Masimtonio is getting emotional and telling him to fight, it all works. It works great. Smart, it's really. Smart, right, and then they all think it's worse than it is because it's like I see light down here, like, oh no, it's really affecting them, but no, there's really light down there.

39:05 That's actual light. It's a great moment. Yeah, Okay, trying to move on to Swiss Cheese and complaint Department and why do we call it Swiss. Cheese Because although this movie is delicious, it does have pressure hull breach holes. Yes, if it doesn't have those pressure whole breach holes. We follow a complaint with the complaint department. So, Jason, what do you have for complaints for this? I had an issue here with the fact that Michael Bean has Lieutenant Coffee. He's obviously sick with the pressure induced psychosis, obviously, so why does his second in command still follow him for so long? I just wish it wasn't so obvious from the get.

39:49 I had the same thing. He never would have got that far with this plan. Someone would have stopped him, Like, dude, there's something. Absolutely Yeah, clearly, I think that's a direction and or writing issue I have there, because it's one thing to see Michael Bean with his shaky hand at the beginning, You're like, oh shit, we know he's going to succumb, but gets quick and all of a sudden he's showing very visible signs, And if you're a second command, you'd be like, uh uh, you are not in the right mind to make any of these decisions. You're done, You're sidelined. That's it, right. Yeah, maybe it would have been better if they somehow locked him up, but he somehow still escapes and great great things. Following through is the right thing because of how he's affected. Yeah, but it's like, how can you be following these orders when it's obvious there's something wrong with them.

40:38 It was a little weird. Remember I had mentioned earlier that there's a great scene between being in Mastonia and he's trying to keep his cool but he's sweating bullets and he's shaky as all hell. And then when they leave the compartment, Lindsay is like, wait, what he's showing signs of the sickness, Like, come on, you would know she should know better than Yeah. Right, she was the one that explained it to them in the beginning. I have the characters spend way too much time in the freezing water. I mean, you heard that a fight seeing off Coffee and Bud and Cat, and the amount of time that they're in that water and they're always jumping into the pool. I'm like, they'd all have hypotheramia by now.

41:23 One thousand percent. I think about it all the time. I'm watching it, Like, you do you know how freaking cold that is? Yeah? Beyond cold, it's literally freezing. So yeah. I like the performances when Budden has to swim from one hatch to the only comes up through the moon pole and the moon pool and is trying to be quiet as to not alert Coffee to his presence. But and he's like he's shivering and he's just barely he's just his muscles have to be so tense and he's literally frozen. So that worked. That's more a little more realism there. But the rest of the time, they're just like going for it. Yeah, they have no problem jumping into I'm like, no way that the water is like seventy degrees of the ocean. It takes me five minutes to get in.

42:09 I'm not jumping twenty something. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, because now I had a couple issues with this particular scene because at this point in the movie, Lieutenant Coffee has locked himself in the moon pool compartment room and he is pulling this chain and he's very much going through this internal struggle. It seems he's trying to figure out what the right thing to do is or whatever the plan is going to be. And he's yanking on this chain and you hear the great noise of the chain links going through like a pulley thing. Anyway, we know that he has big geek strapped with the nuclear warhead, which he is going to then submerse and send down to the Ntis to blow them up. But he's not doing it. He's literally just sitting there and the flatbed submersible is prepped with Big Geek in the warhead, but he hasn't sent it down yet. He's just sitting there. He pulling on this chain very kind of psychotically and methodically, and just he's out of his mind. But then of course Bud and Kat attack him, and also a couple things. Bud at Harris, he goes for Lieutenant Coffee's gun, which I really is the dumbest thing he could do. Yes, if he isn't alerted to your presence, just go open the door.

43:29 Just open the door or take the tie off the door. At least you have such a much better chance doing that. And then obviously Bud and Kat now are they attack Coffee and that sets Coffee off, and then he gets into the submersible and the chase begins. He goes down with Big Geek in the warhead, and I'm like, what if they hadn't attacked him, it's their fault that he took off. He wasn't good, he wasn't leaving. He wasn't doing anything, which is weird. But he's just being crazy sitting off to the side. So I think it's button Cat's fault that that all happened. Right, Okay, yeah, yeah, maybe it's possible. So the last shot of the Aliens, the closing, when the Alien city comes up, Yeah, that does not work at all.

44:22 The word I used right before we got on to record when I was thinking about that because I wanted to ask you how you felt about the finale was hokey. It's a bit hokey for me. It just looks a little silly. I don't know. If it's the design of the alien city ship whatever rises to the surface and then we're supposed to believe that they didn't have to go through decompression because it's alien technology whatnot. That's fine, but it just feels like it's way too much and it's just kind of gaudy and weird looking and not it happens so quickly too. Maybe I don't know. I wasn't.

45:04 I wasn't sold on it. Either, No, because the whole thing is we have Lindsay early on talk about how everything feels so organic, unman made, and then when this floating city comes up. Yeah, it looks like a prop made of metal or something. Yeah, that's the exact opposite of what we were led to believe. It just didn't look well at all. It's interesting because you make a great point. There's so much detail in all aspects of the sets throughout this film, and then you get to the finale and this giant thing where you feel like it's going to look like the giant ship from the end of Close Encounters, right where versus in this case, it's just kind of this very glossy, purplish behemoth entity thing, and it's like, oh, okay, it's not impressive, it's just.

45:50 Yeah, it's like someone built this shiny metal thing and then splattered peptobismol over it. Yes, that's great. Yeah. The only other thing I was going to say is when you were talking about your last favorite scene, which is fantastic with Bud making his descent and then of course the power goes, lights go out. I think it's pretty damn lucky that he ends up landing right next to Big Geek where Big Geek had landed with the warhead. Oh yeah, I mean he lands directly next to like he's in he's falling through the ocean in the dark, with no guidance whatsoever, and he just happens to fall directly onto the ledge where big Geek is resting.

46:33 I would say little Geek maybe got him eighty percent of the way. So as as I hit the wall, I will give you that. I will give you that. But it still was like, no, it's it's needle and a haystack. All right, that's all I got. Okay, time to move on to Hey, it's that actor. All right, So this segment with spotlight a character actor you have seen in many other films, an actor making their big screen debut, or an actor that makes an uncredited cameo. Hey, it's actor, who do we choose this week? This week we've chosen for our Hey, it's that actor Brad Sullivan. Brad Sullivan, he is in the opening sequence only in this film because he is aboard the USS Montana, which of course meets its demise and crashes and everyone aboard drowns. But he, I think, is credited as executive.

47:22 He's one of the main, like one of the officers aboard this sub and the sonars going off and they think a Russian sub is either approaching or about to attack, but it's really the aliens that are traveling at supersonic speeds all around them. Anyway, he's in that scene very recognizable. Brad Sullivan is a Chicago born actor and Korean War veteran. He grew up in Massachusetts. Is known as a reliable player of stoic military types on stage, and he was best remembered for his despicable bad guy roles on film. Here is a little bit of his filmography Snapshot. He was in The Sting. He played the role of cole and that's from nineteen seventy three. And the Sting, of course was directed by George roy Hill and that'll come back later. He's also the character Wanchuck in Slapshot in nineteen seventy seven. But let's move on to the eighties.

48:17 He does both films and TV movies in a bunch of TV series. He was in The Island in eighty and then Ghost Story in eighty one, Cold River in eighty two, and yes, he was in an episode of Miami Vice plays the role of Jack Coleman in season three, episode fifteen, Duty and Honor, and that was in nineteen eighty seven. Then He's in a couple of other things here in eighty seven. You may have heard of these films Ten Men. Then he's in The Untouchables as the mobster George, and then of course he's in Funny Farm and Funny Farm in nineteen eighty eight was directed by George roy Hill. I said he was going to come back, right. He was also in Dead Bang in eighty nine, The Dream Team in eighty nine, and then this The Abyss and eighty nine as well into the nineties. One of his more memorable roles, even though I've not seen this film, but that's what all the research says is. He plays the role of Henry Wingo in the film The Princes of Tides, where I believe he's Nick Nolty's abusive father.

49:12 Then he does sister act to the Jerky Boys Canadian Bacon. He was in twenty episodes of a TV series called Nothing Sacred where he plays the role of Father Leo. That was from ninety seven to ninety eight, and looks like he shut it down in or around the year two thousand and then sadly passed away in two thousand and eight at age seventy seven. So there you go. Great character actor Brad Sullivan. Brad Sullivan, love them and slapshot all right. Time to move on to facts and trivia. What are some facts in trivia we have about the Abyss? And there is a boat load, so it's kind of hard to narrow it down. Yeah, no kidding, Well, I'll start with this. HG. Wells was the first to introduce the notion of intelligent life in the deep ocean in his eighteen ninety seven short story in the Abyss. The idea for the Abyss came to James Cameron when, at age seventeen and in high school, he attended a science lecture about deep sea diving by a man, Francis J. Felechik, who was the first human to breathe liquid through his lungs in experiments conducted by Johannes A. Kilstra at Duke University. He subsequently wrote a short story that focused on a group of scientists in a laboratory at the bottom of the ocean.

50:26 Before filming even started, the cast had to become fully certified divers, and not just basic certification either. They were put through a course that's normally reserved for diving instructors, and because so much of the movie was shot underwater, the actors had to go through decompression procedure every time they finished filming for the day. The physical toll was intense at Harris in particular, suffered onset injuries serious enough that he almost had a turn down future roles after production wrapped. And it wasn't just the actors. Some crew members spent nearly the entire day under wall for months on end, and the constant exposure to chlorine actually bleached their hair completely white.

51:07 The breathing fluid used in the film actually exists, but has only been thoroughly investigated in animals over the previous twenty years. It has been tested on several animals who survived. The rat shown in the film was actually breathing liquid and survived unharmed. Production consulted with doctor Kilstra on the proper use of the breathing fluid for the film, and Harris did not actually breathe the fluid. He held his breath inside a helmet full of liquid while being towed thirty feet below the surface of a large tank. He recalled that the worst moments were being towed with fluid rushing up his nose and his eyes swelling up. Ooh yeah, that sounds fun. Yeah it does. About forty percent of the movie was actually shot underwater. To pull that off, the filmmakers built two massive tanks inside an abandoned nuclear power plant near Gaffney, South Carolina, and nothing about it was easy. They had to invent new technology just to film the underwater scenes properly. On the very first day, the main tank sprang, The league forced in deduction to shut down while damn repair experts were brought in. As if that wasn't enough, a lightning storm later ripped apart the tarp covering the tank, which meant the crew could only shoot at night for the.

52:18 Rest of the schedule. I heard at one point they put like little plastic balls on the top of the tank right dark it out after the tarp incident. To create the alien water tentacle, Cameron initially considered cell animation, or a tentacle sculpted in clay and then animated via stop motion techniques with water reflections projected onto it. Phil Tippett suggested Cameron contact Industrial Light and Magic Yes IOLM. The special visual effects work was divided up among seven VFX divisions, with motion control work by dream Quest Images and Computer Graphics and Opticles by ILM. ILM designed a program to produce surface waves of differing sizes and kinetic properties for the pseudopod. I guess that's what they're calling it.

53:03 The water Tentacle, which was referred to by ILM informally as the water Weenie for the moment where it mimics budd and Lindsay's faces. Ed Harris had eight of his facial expression scanned, while twelve of Masterroumtonio's were scanned via software used to create CGI sculptures. The set was photographed from every angle and digitally recreated so that the pseudopod could be accurately composited into the live action footage. So during the rigorous and problematic shoot, the cast and crew began calling the film by various derogatory names such as Son of Abyss, the Abuse, and Life's Abyss and then you die, Life's Abyss and.

53:45 Then you die. Those are great. I did laugh when I read that. Lastly, I've got James Cameron's brother, Mike Cameron, plays a dead crewman inside the sunken submarine from the beginning of the movie. To accomplish this, he had to hold his breath under twenty five feet of water while also allowing a crab to crawl out of his mouth. The shot took five takes, and Mike had to crush the crab twice because Jim took too long to set the lights. It's for those of you who haven't seen it as a creepy moment where obviously it's Mike Cameron playing the role, but it's supposed to be a dead seaman and crew member of this sub and he's floating in the water and you see crabs coming out of his mouth. It's really gross.

54:26 Freaked out jammer, Oh yeah, freak me out too. Man, as well as my brother and I get along. I don't think we could ask one another to do that. That might be asking a little too much. Look, it's just it's a quick shot. You just got to hold your breath under twenty five feet of water and let this crab crawl out of your mouth. Cool with that, let's go all right? Action? Yeah? What? Wait? What? Okay? Moving on to box office, So The Abyss was released on August ninth in fifteen hundred and thirty three theaters with a production budget of roughly seventy million, one of the highest of the late nineteen eighties. The Abyss went on to grow approximately fifty four million in North America and thirty five million internationally. Worldwide total near ninety million.

55:08 It opened number two at the box office, right behind Parenthood, and would stay in the top ten for another six weeks. The Abyss ended up being the twenty fourth highest grossing movie in the United States. The movie ultimately recouped much of its investment through home video and television licensing, transforming it into a cult favorite. Moving on to reviews. When growing up in the eighties, we'd watch at the movies with Gene Cisco and Roger Ebert to hear their reviews and watch clips of upcoming movies. Their review of The Abyss was unanimous two thumbs up. Jeane enjoyed the underwater adventure in action, but didn't care for the aliens subplot. Roger really enjoyed the special effects and felt the movie was quite convincing and fun. Overall, both agreed they weren't too excited about the ending. No surprise there. Rotten Tomatoes gives it a Tomato Beer score of seventy six percent, with the Popcorn Meter score of eighty three percent, and all so has an IMDb rating of seven point five.

56:04 So this takes us to additional thoughts and questions. We have any additional thoughts and questions about the Abyss? I don't have much here. Let's just go over the sub movies that I can name off the top of my head, which I named earlier. But do you have a favorite overall? Would you go with the Hunt for at October? Crimson Tide, The Abyss, Dust Boot? What's the menu? Matthew McConaughey one? Is that U five four to one? Thing like that? Well? I saw it in the theater and the sound and that was awesome. There you go, I'm getting the number wrong. I think I apologize. What was the Then there's the Harrison Ford one? What was the k The Widow Maker? Yes? Thank you? Yeah, one of my favorites. It's an old one. It's Kerry Grant and Tony Curtis, Operation Petticoat and it's it's more of a comedy, sure, but that one. My dad used to watch that one all the time and I would watch that with him, and anytime it's on Turner Classic, it's a must watch, all right, it's I stop what I'm doing, lots the rest of it. So that's definitely one of my favorites. Of course, the Hunt for October Doss Boot is really good. I really can't think of anyone that I didn't like. I mean, there's always that scene in every submarine movie where they're especially if you watch the World War two ones where they're going through the ocean and the destroyers who jumping the bombs and they're just the sonar and then just shakes a little bit and springs the leak here there and everybody's got to run and fix things. It gets me every time, oh.

57:27 One thousand percent. And it's the ping is always it for me. Yes, the bing and also of course that's one of my favorite parts of the Hunt for October, which with Connor eg Yes, one ping, one ping only. It's great stuff. By the way, corrections and reattractions, but Mark just corrections. It is U five seven to one was the mcconnie film, and it's K nineteen not K nineteen. The Widow Maker was the gotta Harrison Ford doing a brilliant accent in that one. Right, Yeah, yeah, I still like it though. Hey, it's Sarason Ford, he does no wrong in my book. Oh, I had this thought watching the movie. So we have that scene when they demonstrate the floor of carbon whatever it's called. I apologize and they're using the rat. Yes, And then I thought to myself, was that the same stuff that but ended up slurping in later on? I mean, how much of that stuff did they have? How gross is that? Because you know, the rat's shitting there like twelve times while I was under Absolutely, let's started grossing me out.

58:31 These are the things we think about, and you would be correct. Yes, yeah, I didn't realize that. You said you'd like K nineteen Widow Maker that was directed by Catherine Bigelow. Yes, you know, but it got hammered. That movie that did not do well with critics or box office wise. But I went I saw it in the theater. I didn't care. Yeah, I mean yeah, because there's it's still your fun, right. The whole thing is that so it's a nuclear sub and there's a leak and they have to send people in there to fix it, and basically if you go in there, you're going to die because you got exposed. And these poor kids are like eighteen nineteen years old, who's their first time out in sea and he's got to send to their death and it's brutal.

59:15 Yeah, but yes, I was mentioning Catherine Bigelow because she was married to Cameron. That's true, A brief, brief time there. Anyway, Did you have any thoughts, deep questions special Edition? Did you ever see it? What did you think? I have it's been some time. I actually have a description of the special Edition right in front of me at this moment, and after reading it once again, yes, far as I recalled, it added a little bit for me regarding the aliens being a little concerned about how humans are treating the planet, treating one another, and you know, using that kind of screen in their underwater city to show Bud these images of war and aggression. And then I guess it says here, Yeah, Bud asks the aliens why they spared the humans, and they show Bud the message that he sends to Lindsay that he types before, which was I now even forget what the message is?

1:00:13 The one way ticket, the one yes, thank you. Yeah, I knew this was a one way ticket. So they see hope in Bud, and thus they decide to save him and save the crew. So yeah, I just don't have a strong feeling one way or another. The entire ending is a little it's a little much, I think. So there's such a science fiction aspect to this film yet, and I understand that there are fantastical elements and obviously underwater alien creatures, but there's something about them that feel tangible and realistic in a science fiction kind of way. So when it gets to the whole ending, the whole thing just feels a little overwhelming because of there's a slight hoking nature to it. Still, even I believe in the special edition that's maybe not fair. I haven't seen in a while. What are your feelings on theah It definitely pushes the more of the Cold War.

1:01:03 Element at the time, because there's a lot of They show a lot of like broadcast of what's going on above water, and the Russians are accusing the US. US is accusing Russians and feel like we're going to be the brink of war. And then the aliens do the tidal waves that are hanging over the coasts right, Yeah, they're about to unleash mass destruction on Yeah, but there is a lot of little things that happened throughout the movie itself that people get a little more time to shine throughout. Correct, it still doesn't save the ending, though, Yeah, there's more of a message on it, like hey, let's all get along as compared to the regular edition. I like it, but I think is still the same. If it changed the ending, maybe, but yeah, if I can watch more of it, sure, why not, I'll do it.

1:01:48 Yeah, all in But yeah, you see those themes again, like an Avatar and such that, the similar themes about us destroying the planet and then the Aliens trying to save it or send a message. I'm glad you brought up the fact that we did not touch upon really the political tensions that are happening, especially in the beginning of this film, because once the USS Montana goes down in the beginning, then you know, we the Americans are assuming it was the Russians, and then the Russians show up and there's these and I was going to ask you, and I should have asked this in additional questions, was that did you feel the movie lost any tension once that subplot no pun intended, basically went away. We understand that Lieutenant Coffee is nerve thinking that the Aliens somehow are were maybe developed by the Russians or working in tandem with the Russians. But it felt as though the whole Russians versus the US and the political tent kind of dissipated about a third to a halfway through the movie and wasn't really addressed after a while.

1:02:50 Part of me is glad that it's sound in there because of that. It really makes the movie feel data not like we have pre sure relations with Russia right now, But I mean back then, man, it was we used to talk about nuclear war all the time, and I thought that was going to happen. Y, No, it didn't. It didn't bother me that much. I mean, okay, Russians were always the bad guys in the eighties, so it was good that they just kind of swept that under the rud quickly. Yeah, I mostly agree. I didn't think it was even really that necessary. I mean, obviously it adds tension to the beginning of the film, but they probably could have just not addressed it at all after the opening sequence, and I would have been fine, Right, I'm more involved with these crew members just trying to survive underwater with this Navy Seal team and their different agendas, and then also obviously the alien element, which is really cool, so.

1:03:39 Yeah, I agree with that. And then lastly, I read this. I don't know if this is true or not, but according to the novelization, it's the aliens that actually bring Lindsay back to life, and they're the ones that kind of give Cap the motivation to keep going. Got it. I like that. I'd like that a lot actually, like they're just giving him a little helpful nudge here and there. Yeah, a little subtle support. Hmm. That's cool. But I can't remember who wrote the novelization. I apologize. I'm sure it was Dean Foster. Thank you, Alan, Dean Foster, that's who wrote it. I'm sure, yes, all right. So whoever was screaming at the radio right now, like Alan D. Foster, come on, say it, we did it. We got there for you.

1:04:24 They probably think we were gonna go like highbrow and go like yeah, like Arthur C. Clark you know, yeah, no, no, Valentine Foster. No, we were thinking, okay, time to move on to our rating. So Jason, on a scale of one to five, NTI's which you give the abyss? Yes, four NTI's is what I'm giving it solid four nts. What is non terrestrial intelligence? That is the acronym. Correct, we didn't atually don't think we actually said that earlier. No, we did not, So yes, four non Terrestrial Intelligentsia is. Yeah, this is a groundbreaking film. It's another entertaining roller coaster of a ride. The concept is sound and solid and just provides so much tension and anxiety and the movie moves a quick clip. I'm just going to reiterate what you said earlier, Bill, is that you see again the blueprint for what is to come from Cameron here, especially with the T one thousand and T two and that water tentacle sequence again is one of the most talked about sequences in nineteen eighty nine from Cinema can't get enough of Ed Harris. I thought his chemistry with Macentonia was great. I thought they were great together. They really are at each other's throats and you're like, wow, these two.

1:05:44 I can see why they separated, and then you can see why they love each other as well, and they sell their relationship very well. I bought into it. So the ensemble cast, the action, set pieces, the sets, it's such an immense production, even if you don't care for elements of the story or even from my perspective, some aspects of the dialogue. And of course we talked about the ending being a little bit weak. It's such a huge accomplishment that you are in awe the scope of you just want to watch it and look at it because it's so cool and it makes it made me feel something on this rewatch, which I was surprised by the ending I got. I did get emotional when they were trying to revive Lindsey, so I was moved. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the rewatch.

1:06:37 It's a yeah, it's an important film for a few different reasons. So for ntis for me. Yeah, for me, it's four and a half nice. I like the cast in this, I like the music in this. I like the setup in this. I like the setting and this it's the ending. That's that's it. But I enjoy it so much up to that point that it doesn't bother me. I'm a little letdown, but not letdown enough, and so that only not off a half for me. Every time I watch it, I'm still like, how do they do this? How do they do that it does it for me. This movie's just in my wheelhouse. It's just an underwater culture that just really work. Yeah again, I just think you know again, I'm a terminator aliens and true lies guy. Maybe it's a that's just a taste thing, but can't deny that it's a smartly crafted film. James Cameron's a brilliant filmmaker.

1:07:30 Oh yeah, Like I said, it's it's not his best movie. It just I don't know, it just appeals to me the most. That's cool. I respect that. All right. So that just about wraps it up for this week's episode. As always, appreciate you tuning in. Don't forget to follow us on your favorite streaming platform. You need a little rating, drop us a review, hopefully positive one, and if you want to know more about our show, head over to the All Eightiesmovies podcast dot com for all those red details. We hope you joined us. Next time this we dive into another classic from the greatest movie decade ever in nineteen eighties. Till then, stay cool and have an excellent to everyone. It's not easy being a cast iron bitch. It takes discipline in years of training, A lot of people don't appreciate that Thanks for staying up with us, Goodnight World,