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Hello, and welcome to the All Eighties Movies Podcast, the
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podcast where we talk about the blockbusters, the flops, and
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everything in between from one of the freshest decades from
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movies to nineteen eighties. I'm your host Bill Bant along.
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With me on this journey revisiting eighties movies is my
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co host Jason Masek. Hello, Jason.
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Don't you know what it means to be a marine dad?
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Ever since I was a kid, I've wanted this. I've
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wanted to serve my country, and I want to go.
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I want to go to Vietnam and I'll die there
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if I have to.
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That's right, Listeners, we are discussing with spoilers of Plenty,
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the nineteen eighty nine Vietnam drama born on the fourth
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of July. It was produced by Explained Productions adgistered it
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by Universal Pictures. The movie stars Tom Cruz, Kirre Sedgwick,
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and Willem Dafoe. Co written and directed by Oliver Stone,
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this movie is rated R with a running time of
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two hours and twenty five minutes. This movie was nominated
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for eight Oscars, winning two for Best Film Editing and
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Best Director. The movie is based on the nineteen seventy
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six autobiography of ron Kovic, also titled Born on the
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Fourth of July. This movie kicks off our Summer at
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the Cinema series, where all the movies we discussed this
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month take place at some point during the summer. So
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what is this movie about? What's on the box? If
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you grew up in the nineteen eighties and went to
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your local video store to rent this movie, or in
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this case, in the nineties, you would find this description
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on the back of the VHS box. It is what's
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in the box? Take it away.
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Jason Tom Cruise delivers a riveting and unforgettable portrayal of
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Vietnam veteran Ron Kovic in Oliver Stone's Academy Award winning masterpiece.
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Based on a true story, the acclaimed film follows the
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young Kovic from a zealous teen who eagerly volunteers for
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the v Vietnam War, to an embittered veteran paralyzed from
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the midchest down. Deeply in love with his country, Kovic
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returned to an environment vastly different from the one he left,
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and struggled before emerging as a brave new voice for
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the disenchanted.
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Born in the fourth of July. So that was what's
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in the box. Let's move on to our eighty snapshot
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as we highlight some of the creative forces from this movie. Jesus,
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who you got?
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That would be Kira Sedgwick for me, who portrays Donna
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in Born on the fourth of July. Getting right to
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her eighties snapshot, she does sixteen episodes of Another World,
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the soap opera from eighty two to eighty three. Then
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she makes her acting debut in a film called War
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in Love in nineteen eighty five, and most importantly, I
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think Bill would agree, she is in an episode of
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Miami Vice. That's right. In nineteen eighty five, she plays
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the character Sarah McPhail in an episode called Phil the Shill.
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Then she does also do an episode of Amazing Stories
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in eighty six called Lemon Sky in eighty eight Kansas
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in eighty eight as well, and then this Born on
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the fourth of July and eighty nine, which by some
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is considered her first brush with stardom. Other notables from
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Kira Sedgwick after the eighties, she does singles in ninety two,
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Something to Talk About, ninety five Murder in the first
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ninety five phenomenon in ninety six, lots of TV movies
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and episodes of TV series Afterword. She did ban On
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a Ledge in twenty twelve. She's probably best known, however,
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for starring in one hundred and nine episodes of The
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Closer from five to twenty twelve, for which she won
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a Primetime Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actress in twenty ten.
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She does more episodic TV, everything from Brooklyn ninety nine
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to the show Call Your Mother and the Summer I
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Turned Pretty. And here's a little trivia. She was three
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months pregnant with her son, Travis Bacon when she completed
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filming on the born of fourth of July and eighty nine,
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then returned to work after giving birth to Travis to
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begin filming Mister and Missus Bridge in nineteen ninety. And yes,
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it is well known, or somewhat at least, that she
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has been married to mister Kevin Bacon since nineteen eighty
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eight and they do have two children together.
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Cara Cedric one degree from Kevin Bacon. Well said, Okay,
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so I have co writer and director alver Stone, who
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was born in New York in nineteen forty six. In
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nineteen sixty seven, Stone enlisted in the United States Army
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during the Vietnam War. He served from nineteen sixty seven
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to nineteen sixty eight and was twice wounded in action.
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For his service, he received military honors, including a Bronze Star,
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the Purple Heart and Air Metal, and the Combat Infantry Badge.
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In nineteen seventy four, Stone would write and direct his
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first feature, the nineteen seventy four horror movie Seizure. His
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next screenplay would win Stone his first OSCAR for Best
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Writing Screenplay based on material from another medium. It was
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the nineteen seventy eight prison drama Midnight Express, based on
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the book by the same name. In the eighties, Stone
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would write screenplays for Fi Conan, The Barbarian, Scarface, You're
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the Dragon, eight Million Ways to Die. He would also
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write and direct nineteen eighty one's The Hand, nineteen eighty
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six Salvador, in which he was nominated for an Oscar
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for a Screenplay, and then, of course, nineteen eighty six
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is Platoon, which we covered in season three. Stone won
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Best Director and was nominated for his screenplay for that film.
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Next would be nineteen eighty seven's Wall Street, followed by
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nineteen eighty eight's Talk Radio and would close out the
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decade with Born on the Fourth of July. Other notable
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movies of Oliver Stone would be The Doors JFK and
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Natural Born Killers co writer, director, and producer Oliver Stone,
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and that would lead us to our earliest memories. What
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are our earliest memories of the fourth of July? Jason
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kick it off for us?
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Well, I was sixteen when this movie came out the
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Christmas of eighty nine, junior in high school, and I'm
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pretty sure I saw this one in the theater with
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my friends. I can't be certain of that, however, Now, regardless,
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one hears the buzz at the time through reviews on
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television or in the paper, and I was already sold
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on Tom Cruise at the time because of risky business,
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top gun, cocktail, rain man, et cetera. So I got
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to see this right, and I did, And my memories
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are somewhat vague. I recall knowing it was an Ali
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Stone film, and having seen Platoon, that this would probably
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be another weighty film, a heavy subject. And I recall
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thinking that Cruise's performance was worthy of the praise that
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I had read or heard about previous and that yeah,
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it was a tough film to watch. I recall the
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sequence in Vietnam near the beginning of the film, and
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I remembered care Sedgwick being extremely likable. But at that
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time I felt it was a little slow for me
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and my sensibilities as a teenager and looking forward to
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those brainless action films of the time. And anyway, I
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clearly hadn't had a historical grasp on the content or
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real life events of this film other than the fact
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that my own father flew in the war, and from
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outward appearances and from the viewpoint of a sixteen year
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old kid, he seemed to have adjusted pretty well afterward,
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But that was naive again, teenage point of view I had.
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I didn't have an understanding of the tumultuous era it
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was for our country that was a little before my time.
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I didn't live it, and I'm not going to pretend
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I even know the weight of it now or the
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depth of it now, but I certainly didn't then, and
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so I didn't have an investment in it other than
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respecting the direction of Oliverstone and of course the John
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Williams score, because I was such a big fan of his.
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So honestly, I was really interested to see how I
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felt about this movie today because I would possibly have
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a little more empathy and connection as an adult with
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some life experience and a little more knowledge of history.
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What are your earliest memories? Bill Bant?
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Yeah, for me, the first time I saw this was
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freshman year of college. At the time, I still wasn't
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a big Tom Cruise fan, which would, as I've joked,
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Days of Thunder is the one that for some reason
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I was like, oh, you know what, I kind of
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like Tom Cruise now, so of all movies of his
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to become a fan of. But at school, they would
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have Wednesday Blockbuster Night, which was remember back in the day,
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when a movie come out in theater. After I would
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do his run, you'd usually have to wait up two
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years for it to come out on video, maybe two
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years to come out on cable. So on campus they
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would show these movies basically after theatrical run and before
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they came out on videos, so it would be probably
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the last time you had a chance to watch it
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on the big screen. And this was on its play schedule,
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and they'd have these movies basically first run movies every
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Wednesday night, and I was there every Wednesday either go
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with my roommate, and then he had a friend that
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was an ROTC. His name was Chad. And then Chad
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brought a friend along who we've mentioned on this podcast
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every once in a while, Tom McKenzie. That was the
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first time I met Tom McKenzie was through Wednesday Blockbusters.
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So that was the first time I saw Born the
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fourth of July. You know, I knew with Oliver Stone
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making Platoon and what its impact was winning Best Picture,
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but because it was cruise and the material, it was
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a tough watch. I wasn't that into it, so I
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kind of just left it there. I haven't watched it since,
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so this is interesting to me to go back again
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for the first time now in thirty some years, to
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watch it and see what I think about it.
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Couldn't agree more. Bill Bent, I had the same exact sentiment.
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I was thinking, Wow, I have not seen this probably
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for about the same time span, and now that I
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think about it, maybe I had only just seen it once.
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I know I had only seen it once in its entirety,
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but I don't even know if i'd seen clips or
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little pieces of it afterwards. So yeah, it was almost
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as if we were watching it with fresh eye then,
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so this will be good to talk about.
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Yeah, all right, so let's get into initial thoughts. Then,
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what are your initial thoughts watching Born the fourth of
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July all these years later?
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Yeah? Absolutely, let's get into it. You know, this is
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the second part of the Oliverstone Vietnam trilogy, the other
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two being, of course, Bill had mentioned Platoon in nineteen
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eighty six, which we covered, and then Heaven and Earth
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in ninety three, which I have to admit I've never seen.
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Have you seen Heaven and Earth? Bill? No, I'm not, Okay,
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may have to check that out. Being the completests that
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we are, I don't know why I just said that.
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I don't know if we're completest anyway. As soon as
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this film begins Born on the fourth of July, I
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was already anticipating the score by John Williams, and it
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didn't disappoint. Sweeping, swelling, epic, heartbreaking. I love this music.
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Even before it started, I could hear the theme in
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my head because although I hadn't watched this film in
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several several years, I've listened to the JAD hits repeatedly,
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so I knew this music now, not just the music here,
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but I wanted to shout out the soundtrack and Bill Bant.
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One thing that just jumped out to me was that
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Vietnam movies always have great soundtracks because of the era,
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because of that time in music and everything that was
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happening within the music industry at that time as well.
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So just a great, great soundtrack here. We get major
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needle drops like a hard Brain's Gonna fall, Born on
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the Bayou, browne Eyed Girl, American Pie, My Girl, Soldier Boy,
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Venus moon River. Just great music in this movie all around.
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So getting to the film itself, I do love the
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opening ten minutes or so pure Americana in the late fifties,
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early sixties and beyond, and just love the glow of it.
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I do want to take a moment here to give
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the cinematographer of this film a real shout out. Bob
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Richardson collaborator with Oliver Stone and Scorse and Tarantino over
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the years, and he was nominated for this and he
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had won three Oscars for Best Cinematography and also fun
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fact for us. Bill Bant the gaffer on this film
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and also would be known as a chief lighting technician
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for Bob Richardson, is Ray Peshk credited as Ray Ray
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Team Peshk on this who we were lucky enough to
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work with on two of our short films, Yes, Overcards
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and Desolate Road.
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I didn't know that he worked with Stone. That's crazy. Yeah,
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of all the stories he told you, I don't remember
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him ever mentioning.
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Yep, he was ar Bob Richardson's right hand man for
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a lot of shoots and so thus working with huge directors.
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And then Ray Peshk himself was our DP, our director
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of photography on our short films, and clearly because of
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his experience as a gaffer, knew how to light our
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set and location quite well and quite quickly. Yes, a
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good dude, funny guy, vibrant, had a lot of personality.
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Good dude. But I just wanted to say the point
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being this film looks fantastic and it is lit fantastic,
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So credit to both Bob and Ray. Hey how about
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a young Tom Cruise embraces love This look from Tom
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Cruise in the beginning of this movie as he's coming
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of age and this is a few years after Top
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Gun and Tom Cruise looks even younger to me. Granted
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there's some makeup but men, I was like Jase, he
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still's got a baby face in this movie. I have
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a question for you, Bill Bant, Is this the most
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connected we've seen Tom Cruise with another woman in a film?
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Yes, I was thinking that too.
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He has been intimate, you know, there's kissing scenes, et cetera,
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not overtly sexual scenes. But here what is missing I
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think in his romantic relationships within films has been a
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connectivity or a chemistry. Really for me personally, that's my opinion.
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But here I think he he's got real chemistry with
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Kira Cedgwick, which I appreciated.
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Yeah, maybe risky business.
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He's got some chemistry with a Rebecca de Marney for sure.
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That's a good point. Yeah, I glad you brought that up.
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But I mean, considering his filmography, the fact that we
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could probably name him all in one hand. Yeah, true,
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And he did movies Nicole Kidman that sho the popped
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up first and it didn't.
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Yeah, right, good point. Anyway, let's talk about Tom Cruise
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for a moment. For me, this is a big initial thought.
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His performance really carries the whole movie. I'll have more
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to say at the end of my initial thoughts, but
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I think he's excellent in this, really, really quite good.
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I've always been of the opinion that he was a
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great actor, but this is a movie where you can
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see a lot of his internal conflict. There is so
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much going on within his face, but none of it
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is overacting. It is subtle reactions to everyone's reaction to him,
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especially after he incurs the disability and comes back from
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Vietnam and he's in the wheelchair. How he handles how
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everyone else sees him it's quite something, and how he
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internalizes it and then does let it out emotionally in
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various scenes. So I'm a big fan of him in
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this movie as far as his acting, Chops, how did
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you feel about his performance overall?
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I think most of us consider Tom Cruise a movie star,
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but in this movie, he's a movie actor. Yeah, And
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that was one of the definitely big impressions I got
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of rewatching this. I'm like, Yeah, this guy can act
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if he needs to. He likes to make popcorn films,
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which is great, you know, we enjoy then, But he
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can act and he does it quite well in this film.
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I agree. And yeah, he over this span from mid
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to late eighties all the way up through the two thousands,
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had worked with so many huge directors and was very
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calculating in his approach. But then yeah, as of late
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he has chosen to do the popcorn films like The
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Mission Impossible films, which are fantastic and we're huge fans.
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I can't get enough. I hope he keeps doing them forever.
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It seems like he will somehow, some way. But here
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I've always been a fan of Like his work in
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rain Man, Color of Money, I think he's quite good
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as a total flake, will you know so? But here
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you can see he did the work. You really can
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see he did the work. Moving on, here's the film
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gets going. It's immediate that there are a lot of
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other actors in this movie besides Tom Cruise, a lot
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of other familiar faces, many from Stone's first Vietnam film, Platoon.
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Lots of crossover there, but overall, what a Murderers Row.
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An incredible cast of character actors and supporting actors. We've
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got Kira Sedgwick as aforementioned Raymond J. Berry, Caroline Kava,
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Jerry Levine, Frank Wally at Lauder, Michael Wincott, Tom Sizemore,
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Willem Dafoe, Steven Billy and Daniel Baldwin, Goten, Jason Gedrick,
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Josh Evans, Lily Taylor's in this as well, Tom Barringer,
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both John c. McGinley and Wayne Knight have appearances. Vivica
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Fox plays a hooker at some point.
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In this movie. I didn't I don't think you see
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her face.
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Okay, I'm like, I don't remember seeing her, but she
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is credited, and there's.
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Yeah, I think she's at the VA hospital.
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Okay, thank you. And there's cameos and others like I
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didn't even cover everyone here, but it's everybody, including Tom
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Cruise's cousin who's in there somewhere.
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Yep.
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Crazy. So we get all of these reunions in this
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from Platoon and you know what reunion jumped out to me,
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Bill Bant, the Tom Cruise Jason Gedrick reunion from Risky Business.
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Oh yeah, that's right, only because this is kind of
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a little tongue in chee because Jason Gendrick is like
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on screen for like two seconds in Risky Business. You
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see him at the party at the end, right, does
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he does he say something? Doesn't he have like one?
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Or I think he done?
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Yeah? It's like, wait, a minute. Jason Kendrick is in
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risky business. I remember calling that out. But it is
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great to see our Platoon stars in this, such as
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will and Defoe and just such a young badass Tom
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Behringer as the Marine Corps recrreer. Tom looking sharpen this.
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I mean, he's still playing a soldier, but he looks
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so different than he does in Platoon cleans up well
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here in this film. Usually I mentioned a standout from
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the movie. There's so many good actors in this, but
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Tom Cruise is really the standout. Beyond that, I want
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to give a shout out to Raymond Jay Berry and
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Caroline Cova who portray Missus and Missus Kovic, his parents
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in this. I thought they were both excellent. We get
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these great supporting actors that provide real perspective on the
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view of the war from home. So shout out to
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Jerry Levine's childhood friend Steve Boyer, who chose to go
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to college and starts his own business instead of going
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to Vietnam. And I really liked Rocky Carroll, African American
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actor who played Willie in the VA hospital who helps
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ron Kovic, and he has a line that says like this,
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I'm serious, man. It ain't about burning the flag in Vietnam. Man.
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We fight for our rights over there. We ain't got
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no right at home. It's about Detroit, Newark, man. It's
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about racism. Man. So I appreciated him. I appreciated these
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supporting actors for giving the perspective that they did in
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this movie. I thought that was really smart and they're
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all just brilliant. Always been a fan of care Sedgwick.
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What do you think, Bill? I just think she exues
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a certain warmth and kindness. She's like the cute girl
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next door. I think she plays it to a t.
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I did find her good in this and very understated.
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She did a lot of She definitely does a little
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face acting because she's really pining for Ron throughout that
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beginning of the film, and Ron is just oblivious to
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it until the prem scene, which I'll get into right
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and then I kind of wish I saw a little
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bit more of her throughout the film.
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What happened?
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Yep?
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Yeah, And that was in my complaints too. Some of
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these characters we meet, we don't know what happens to them,
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where do they go, what happens? So there's a lot
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of characters that me that just get dropped off here
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and there, and that's about it.
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I don't know if you can call it a Mandela effect,
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but I had remembered this differently. I expected more Cara
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Cedric a lot more in this movie. I was like, Oh,
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she's actually not in this that much. The scenes she's
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in she's great. I think as a high schooler she's
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adorable and lovable, and then later on as an activist
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and protester, very convincing. She's great. I love the scenes
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she has with Cruise, but they aren't that many, so
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I was surprised by that as well. I always think
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of this shot of the soldiers coming over the beach
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dunes in Vietnam. The silhouette always impactful, effective, And I
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watched this Vietnam sequence, and this is something I should
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have mentioned in early memories. I always remember the sequence
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because it feels desert, like it's a beach head and
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it is unique. And I was like, that's weird. You
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don't see any jungle, And sure enough I came across
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it in the trivia that it's very unusual to see
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a Vietnam movie with no jungle whatsoever. Yeah, you know,
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watching This Man the second Fourth of July parade of
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the film, just to see how much the country had
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changed within a decade was wild. This movie really does
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kind of cover the time span pretty well where you're
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just like, wow, what a time in our country where
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you just see so much change. And I find that
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was very impactful, or at least it portrayed it for
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you will in this movie. This movie definitely makes you
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think about what the holiday means, that being the fourth
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of July Independence Day, how we gained our independence, this
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country's history with war, how we got into those wars,
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how we got out, what was the cost, how many
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lives were lost in how many families were destroyed. This
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is a thought provoking film to say the least. And
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as much as I mean spoiler alert, I overall really
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did respect this film and or do respect this film
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and enjoyed the viewing experience. I did have some issues.
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I mentioned Willem Dafoe earlier, our guy from Platoon. I
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thought he was a little under used in this I
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love Willem Dafoe, I think he's awesome. I do love
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what he has in this movie, but I just want
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more of the guy. I just love him. That's just
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one little issue. Here's the thing. What does the movie about?
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Is it patriotism, idealism, activism, the journey from innocence to experience. Obviously,
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this is a movie about innocence lost. It's about understanding
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what you're fighting for or against, perspective with age, perspective
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through listening, learning from the so called opposition, learning to
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understand what you hate, learning to understand why you love
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what you love. What real courage and sacrifice means, how
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it can mean different things, The strength and courage it
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takes to change your way of thinking. When you discover
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something you've given your life and your belief to is
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not what you believed it to be. It's powerful stuff. Man.
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But on the flip side, my take here is that
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the movie is a lot about feelings. That it's presenting
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a lot of feelings and a lot of temperament versus facts.
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And that is perfectly fine. And what I mean by
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that is that we know the facts are the facts,
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they exist. Of course, there's no debating that at this point.
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I'm just saying, in this film, how it's laid out,
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we don't get a lot of specifics and the why
431
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and the how, it's a lot of reactions. So it's
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a take that I have here where if you're educated
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on the Vietnam War, why we entered the conflict, the
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political climate, the tumultuous time at home in our own country,
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the progressive time it was, the activism and civil rights
436
00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:14.000
and peace movements. This movie's going to resonate if you
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aren't educated on it. Then there's certain things that will resonate,
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I think, and some that don't, as in ron Kovic's
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dealing with his mental and physical traumas, that's one thing,
440
00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.519
but not as much as to the why he makes
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the turn he does to activism. We do get a
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00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:30.599
big scene towards the end, and you can see what
443
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:33.720
kind of cements his turn if you will. And I
444
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.240
mentioned we get a lot of different perspectives from supporting
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characters about what's going on and the bullshit lies and
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how the government lied, and the result being good boys
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are dying thirteen thousand miles away in a place we
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00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:46.880
don't belong. And we can respect the power of the
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anti war or sentiment, but there still feels like something
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00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.400
is missing in the development here and exactly what the
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00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:55.839
facts were in the information that drove these people to
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rise up this way, our people, the people of this country.
453
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So with Ron's journey, we know why he's in pain.
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We see him witness the anti war sentiment and protests.
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We see him try to find his purpose to live.
456
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We see what the war did to him. But I
457
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guess what I was kind of hoping for more was
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an exploration into why he was so angry towards the end,
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to really cement him as an activist for the disenchanted.
460
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And at one point you thought you were doing the
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right thing, no matter what the sacrifice, this being Ron Kovic,
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and then you find out the facts as to why
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you now know what you did doesn't have the meaning
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behind it you had hoped, and what that does too.
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We see Ron's emotional journey on the surface, but I
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just could have used a scene or two watching Ron
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being educated on the actual facts as to what happened
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to help fuel his decision to become this anti war promoter.
469
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I mean, I could go on and on, but what
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00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.640
the film does effectively is really give you a feel
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for just how much was freaking happen in our country
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at the time. And my dad again was a pilot
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in the war. He flew Sea one thirties. He's got
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a ton of stories, he lost friends, He's open about
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a lot of things, and I do regard him as
476
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.240
a hero, and I try to thank him for his
477
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:05.680
service when I get the chance. But after watching this film,
478
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:08.319
I realized I never have asked him about his reaction
479
00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:11.440
to this particular time of in our country in the
480
00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.119
anti war movement, or how it made him feel something
481
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:17.519
I need to do. So just some of my initial thoughts.
482
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.400
Bill Ban Yeah, I'll be honest, this movie was a
483
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:25.400
tough watch, just the way these troops were depicted in
484
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:29.240
the hospital, the way they were depicted it being back home.
485
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:33.279
And when this movie came out, the war was still
486
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:37.279
fresh in people's minds. There's still a lot of debate
487
00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:39.839
if we should have been over there. And I think
488
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:44.519
for me personally, when you look at American history, you
489
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:46.440
know we did WORL War one, we did War two.
490
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.079
We're doing the right thing. Then we got into the
491
00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:52.519
Korean War, the forgotten War where we tied, and then
492
00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:56.000
in this one where we're asking people to go to
493
00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:58.519
a little country where nobody knew where it was on
494
00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:02.240
the map to stop Calmanism, and half the country was
495
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:05.279
for half the country was against it. It's really the
496
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:10.119
first time people were weary of the government. You look
497
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.440
at where we are now in the landscape of government,
498
00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:16.680
and people don't trust it. So even looking at it
499
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:20.359
from that perspective to today's perspective, I see a lot
500
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:25.279
of parallels, which kind of stinks. I think Cruise is
501
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:28.119
really good in it. It was interesting watching the opening
502
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:30.240
credits and seeing all these names and the credits and
503
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:32.039
you're like, oh my god, look all these people that
504
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:35.000
are in it, and so many of our blink and
505
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:40.680
you miss them kind of rolls. It's I know, you're
506
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.839
asking about why Ron changes the way that he does.
507
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:47.359
And that's a scary thing too. You think about it.
508
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:52.039
Here he was eighteen nineteen years old wanting to serve
509
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:56.359
in his country because his parents served, his grandparents served,
510
00:26:56.599 --> 00:26:58.559
and you just think, hey, that's the right thing to do,
511
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:00.680
that's what I should do. Should go over there and51200:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.680
fight for my country. I should die for my country.51300:27:03.119 --> 00:27:07.519
And then realizing that maybe the government tricked you into going,51400:27:07.680 --> 00:27:09.720
tricked all these people into going. The trick is a51500:27:09.720 --> 00:27:13.680
bad word, and then you become disillusioned because before you51600:27:13.759 --> 00:27:15.680
knew what you were fighting for, and this time you51700:27:15.839 --> 00:27:18.519
don't really know what you're fighting for, and you're not51800:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.640
ever trying to reach the objective that they were supposed51900:27:22.680 --> 00:27:25.559
to reach in this work. So I think that it52000:27:25.640 --> 00:27:28.000
makes it very tough now that we're farther away from52100:27:28.079 --> 00:27:29.839
this and can really look back on it in the52200:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.319
history of it, and most people agree that the result52300:27:33.440 --> 00:27:35.759
shouldn't have been what it should have been, or should52400:27:35.839 --> 00:27:37.559
we even have been over there to begin with, And52500:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.920
that's just what makes it so upsetting. And then there's52600:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.799
that scene when he's in the parade and people are52700:27:46.359 --> 00:27:49.880
booing him and giving him the finger. Some people were52800:27:49.960 --> 00:27:51.839
drafted and went over there. That wasn't their choice to52900:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.799
go over and then you're treating them like that. If53000:27:54.839 --> 00:27:57.880
you're against the war, you should protest, but don't disrespect53100:27:58.000 --> 00:28:01.720
those that went over there and try to fight what53200:28:01.799 --> 00:28:03.599
they thought was what they thought was the right thing.53300:28:04.079 --> 00:28:05.440
A lot of them went over there did not think53400:28:05.559 --> 00:28:08.279
was the right thing, but still did it because that's53500:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.400
what we were conditioned to do for our country back then.53600:28:12.240 --> 00:28:14.640
So it was just tough to watch. You just kind53700:28:14.640 --> 00:28:17.160
of feel like, right now, you're just disillusioned with the53800:28:17.240 --> 00:28:20.920
government and the way things are, and there's no compromise anymore,53900:28:20.920 --> 00:28:23.680
and we can't get things done. And this is the54000:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.799
starting point right here with this war, where people just54100:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.359
realized what is the government doing? Why do we feel54200:28:29.359 --> 00:28:31.000
like they're lying to us now? Why do we feel54300:28:31.039 --> 00:28:34.160
like they're so dishonest? It's kind of heartbreaking because most54400:28:34.200 --> 00:28:39.640
people don't trust the government anymore. So everything's just great now,54500:28:40.000 --> 00:28:42.720
right I think? For me, Yeah, maybe really think about54600:28:43.039 --> 00:28:47.799
what's going on now. Things haven't become a positive, they're54700:28:47.799 --> 00:28:48.960
becoming more of a negative.54800:28:49.200 --> 00:28:52.799
Yeah, I can't disagree. Well said first of all. And54900:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.119
also it's so confusing, and there's so much confusion at55000:28:57.160 --> 00:29:00.680
this time, and it is so hard. It was hard55100:29:00.720 --> 00:29:04.200
then hard now to sift through what are the facts,55200:29:04.559 --> 00:29:08.400
What is the government's motivation, who is driving this force55300:29:08.680 --> 00:29:13.279
to engage in war? What is the real end game here?55400:29:13.680 --> 00:29:15.599
What are we hoping to gain from it? What is55500:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.599
the government hoping to gain from it? If we actually55600:29:18.720 --> 00:29:23.559
knew all of the facts or understood the administration's goals,55700:29:23.720 --> 00:29:26.519
then maybe it would be clear as to which side55800:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.680
we could get behind and or why. But sometimes we55900:29:30.839 --> 00:29:32.400
just don't have all of it, and all we have56000:29:32.720 --> 00:29:35.400
is what we're being shown or the results of that,56100:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.720
and then we feel a certain way, and that's I think,56200:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.160
you know, the kind of the what this whole movie is.56300:29:41.480 --> 00:29:44.079
It is a lot of reaction and the feelings about56400:29:44.359 --> 00:29:47.400
what has happened and then not really knowing why, especially56500:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.799
then when there's no we being the US of a right,56600:29:52.319 --> 00:29:56.920
having one previous wars and being the so called power56700:29:57.799 --> 00:29:59.440
that we are in the standing that we have in56800:29:59.519 --> 00:30:01.720
the world, and then to go into this conflict and56900:30:01.839 --> 00:30:05.839
come out as a loser on so many fronts. Nothing57000:30:05.920 --> 00:30:08.160
made sense at the time. It was such a time57100:30:08.200 --> 00:30:10.799
of upheaval. So yeah, it's interesting, you know, And I57200:30:10.960 --> 00:30:12.960
don't get me wrong, it's just the facts are all57300:30:13.039 --> 00:30:16.319
there underlying I guess this movie wasn't It didn't have57400:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.960
to be, and it wasn't about the minutia of the57500:30:19.119 --> 00:30:22.359
actual facts as to this happened here and this is57600:30:22.440 --> 00:30:25.039
why we did this, and these are the documents that57700:30:25.119 --> 00:30:27.319
have come up. This is all happening in present time,57800:30:27.400 --> 00:30:30.400
I guess at that time, so not a lot of57900:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.519
the facts were probably made known immediately. It was just58000:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.279
going based on what was either being leaked or word58100:30:36.279 --> 00:30:39.480
of mouth, you know, so impactful stuff makes.58200:30:39.559 --> 00:30:42.680
Yeah, that's what I find scary today, as they probably58300:30:42.759 --> 00:30:44.400
did back then during the Vietnam War, is like you58400:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.599
hear two signs to every story, and then it's, well,58500:30:48.640 --> 00:30:51.200
where do I get the facts to make my own58600:30:51.400 --> 00:30:55.000
opinion to see what side I should what I'm talking58700:30:55.079 --> 00:30:57.599
side with? And you don't know where to go to58800:30:57.680 --> 00:31:02.519
find that information anymore. And you look at Ron thinking, Okay,58900:31:02.680 --> 00:31:04.799
we need to go over there and stop communism. And59000:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.640
then he comes back and everyone's telling him, yeah, you59100:31:07.680 --> 00:31:09.960
should have went over there, that was wrong. And then59200:31:10.359 --> 00:31:12.440
you know, now he's hearing a different set of facts,59300:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.359
and now he's doubting what he did and what it59400:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.559
cost him. Right, And that's tough because here he is,59500:31:19.599 --> 00:31:20.960
it's gonna be in the wheelchair for the rest of59600:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.920
his life. It's not going to have a family. You know,59700:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.640
you feel like you were lied to. So the bitterness,59800:31:26.680 --> 00:31:29.319
the resentment, all that comes into play, and you do59900:31:29.480 --> 00:31:32.319
see it, and it hurts. It hurts to watch that,60000:31:32.559 --> 00:31:32.680
you know.60100:31:32.799 --> 00:31:34.720
And you're absolutely right, And I think you're kind of60200:31:34.799 --> 00:31:39.559
answering my either question or issue with the way the60300:31:39.640 --> 00:31:42.440
film was laid out a little bit, is that this60400:31:42.559 --> 00:31:45.640
whole idea of You're just not seeing the results. What60500:31:45.759 --> 00:31:48.240
are the positive results from it? All you're seeing is60600:31:48.319 --> 00:31:50.519
the pain and anguish and what it's cost so many60700:31:50.599 --> 00:31:54.240
people and families. And I think that's what Ron obviously, well,60800:31:54.279 --> 00:31:56.920
obviously that's what Ron goes through. What he endures is60900:31:56.960 --> 00:32:01.480
his own personal loss and doesn't see, doesn't understand. It's61000:32:01.559 --> 00:32:05.480
one thing to be to have that youthful, exuberant idealism61100:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.319
and faith and belief in the idea of what the61200:32:08.440 --> 00:32:11.519
United States of America represents and what it is supposed61300:32:11.559 --> 00:32:15.319
to be as a democracy. But then when we engage61400:32:15.359 --> 00:32:17.319
in a conflict such as this and come out of it,61500:32:17.839 --> 00:32:20.400
you know, as losers. Was it worth it? Where's the61600:32:20.519 --> 00:32:23.920
value in it? And he sees none, obviously, such a huge,61700:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.599
huge loss and negative result that it makes him switch sides,61800:32:27.599 --> 00:32:28.079
if you will.61900:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.799
Yeah, it's tough to try to talk about this movie62000:32:30.920 --> 00:32:34.279
not get super political, right, Yeah, But I'm just trying62100:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.319
to think of it from the perspective of Ron thinking,62200:32:37.759 --> 00:32:41.720
this is what happened before. Our family. We wore our62300:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.119
family would go, they would serve and it was the62400:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.640
right thing, and this time, because you're conditioned to think62500:32:47.720 --> 00:32:49.799
that way, and then coming out of it going, oh,62600:32:50.039 --> 00:32:53.039
government might have lied to you about this, Like wait, wait,62700:32:53.319 --> 00:32:54.480
what the hell is going on?62800:32:54.960 --> 00:32:57.279
Right? The whole idea is that we're going we're defending62900:32:57.319 --> 00:32:59.799
our way of life. Right, that's the whole idea, is63000:32:59.839 --> 00:33:01.920
that what we're sold on and what we like to63100:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.400
believe is that we are defending our borders, we're defending63200:33:05.440 --> 00:33:07.759
our way of life. Is that there are enemies out63300:33:07.799 --> 00:33:10.440
there that want what we have, and so we need63400:33:10.559 --> 00:33:13.960
to do our utmost and protect what we have, our63500:33:14.000 --> 00:33:18.160
democracy and our freedom. And then to find out, well,63600:33:18.319 --> 00:33:22.319
that's actually what was maybe not the whole reason for63700:33:22.720 --> 00:33:26.079
engaging in the war. This is not a podcast about63800:33:26.240 --> 00:33:29.680
giving our own opinions and political opinions and beliefs. It's63900:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.440
just we're talking about what happens in this movie and64000:33:32.519 --> 00:33:34.200
how the story is laid out.64100:33:34.880 --> 00:33:38.160
Right, Okay, with that, let's move on to favorite scenes64200:33:38.319 --> 00:33:40.160
or moments. We are some of our favorite scenes of64300:33:40.200 --> 00:33:42.079
moments from for on the fourth of July.64400:33:42.440 --> 00:33:47.839
Yeah, speaking of a little Americana idealism and patriotism, I'm64500:33:47.839 --> 00:33:50.799
going to start with the opening sequence our Fourth of64600:33:50.920 --> 00:33:55.880
July parade. Young ron Kovic is on his dad's shoulders,64700:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.960
parade is happening down what I believe is basically mainstream64800:34:00.160 --> 00:34:04.240
in Massapequa, New York. Flags are waving the convoy of64900:34:04.440 --> 00:34:08.000
cars slowly rolling down the street. Streets are just packed65000:34:08.119 --> 00:34:11.840
lined with people on either side. Fire Crackers are cracking65100:34:12.000 --> 00:34:14.880
and making all of the smoke. We've got balloons, we've65200:34:14.880 --> 00:34:19.719
got clowns. And then we have the veterans walking down65300:34:19.960 --> 00:34:24.000
the street holding their flags and the elder veterans that65400:34:24.119 --> 00:34:27.280
are on the sidelines watching. They stand up in salute,65500:34:27.719 --> 00:34:31.639
and we see these veterans marching along, and we do65600:34:31.880 --> 00:34:35.320
see some disabled veterans, one in a wheelchair in particular,65700:34:35.679 --> 00:34:40.480
whom is reacting to the fireworks. And it is ron65800:34:40.559 --> 00:34:44.440
Kovic making a cameo here. He is mustached as he65900:34:44.639 --> 00:34:46.719
is going down the street in his wheelchair. But the66000:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.440
important thing is we do see and we watch the66100:34:49.639 --> 00:34:52.599
young ron Kovic on his dad's shoulders, really kind of66200:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.480
keying in on these veterans, in particular this one in66300:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.480
the wheelchair as he squints and is jolted every time66400:34:59.519 --> 00:35:04.719
a fire cracker goes off, so he's clearly dealing with PTSD. Then,66500:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.000
on a lighter note, we see ron Kovic's friends running66600:35:08.119 --> 00:35:11.039
through the crowd and we see a young Donna. Donna66700:35:11.199 --> 00:35:13.960
runs up to Ron Kovic and gives him a gift66800:35:14.039 --> 00:35:17.920
it's his birthday, gives him a New York Yankees hat,66900:35:18.239 --> 00:35:21.639
and you even see ron Kovic's mom looking down upon him, going, oh,67000:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.800
he's my Yankee doodle boy, and then it transitions to67100:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.559
the nighttime with Donna and Ron kissing. Ron unfortunately doesn't67200:35:29.599 --> 00:35:33.400
understand the moment at all and doesn't read Donna at all,67300:35:33.719 --> 00:35:36.559
but does transition then later to Ron at a little67400:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.800
league game hitting a home run while Donna's on the67500:35:38.840 --> 00:35:41.400
sideline with a new boyfriend. No surprise that she's with67600:35:41.519 --> 00:35:44.119
somebody new because Ron wasn't giving her the time of day. Apparently,67700:35:44.599 --> 00:35:46.519
Ron hits a home run in the little league game,67800:35:46.599 --> 00:35:49.519
and you see his dad just jumping up and down67900:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.239
in slow motion screaming, that's my boy. And then it68000:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.320
transitions to Ron and his family at home, all his68100:35:55.440 --> 00:35:59.440
brothers and sisters watching President Kennedy's inaugural speech from nineteen68200:35:59.440 --> 00:36:02.719
sixty one, and then his mom looks over to Ron68300:36:02.840 --> 00:36:05.199
in particular and says, I had a dream, Ronnie, the68400:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.480
other night that you were speaking to a large crowd68500:36:07.719 --> 00:36:11.159
just like him, and you were saying great things. So68600:36:11.639 --> 00:36:15.000
I'm calling out this whole scene because it's beautifully shot68700:36:15.119 --> 00:36:19.679
by Bob Richardson, lit by Guy Ray Beshki. But it68800:36:19.920 --> 00:36:24.800
really is super nostalgic and it drives home that whole point,68900:36:24.960 --> 00:36:30.079
the idea of what America is and or stands for69000:36:30.440 --> 00:36:34.199
and or celebrates, which was what it was at that time.69100:36:34.360 --> 00:36:36.760
That is Americana, and it's a real example of it.69200:36:37.239 --> 00:36:40.800
And you watch it going I want to live in69300:36:40.880 --> 00:36:45.880
this moment. Everything about this is almost heavenly. There's such69400:36:45.920 --> 00:36:49.239
a glow about it. It's perfect, the perfect way to69500:36:49.320 --> 00:36:53.079
start this movie because there is such a specific parallel69600:36:53.199 --> 00:36:56.599
and callback to the second Fourth of July Parade that69700:36:56.760 --> 00:36:59.559
happens after Ron comes back from the war and how69800:36:59.760 --> 00:37:04.159
things are almost polar ops and have changed so much. So, yeah,69900:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.360
I thought it was effective. It made me nostalgic for70000:37:07.480 --> 00:37:09.599
my youth, even though I did not grow up in70100:37:09.679 --> 00:37:13.119
the sixties. It is, I guessed, very much from a70200:37:13.360 --> 00:37:15.880
child's point of view. It's almost a childlike view in70300:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.199
a way. It's very innocent, right, This is the picture70400:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.239
of an innocent America in a way. It's a great70500:37:22.280 --> 00:37:23.239
way to start this movie.70600:37:23.599 --> 00:37:25.960
Yeah, I had this down also because the movie does70700:37:26.079 --> 00:37:29.760
open up with Ron and his friends playing war, which70800:37:30.159 --> 00:37:34.239
nowadays you can't even do finger guns at school without70900:37:34.440 --> 00:37:37.960
you getting admonished, and it just kind of made me laugh, like, Wow,71000:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.199
we've come a long way from kids running around with71100:37:41.360 --> 00:37:44.800
pretend guns shooting one another. And I think the moment71200:37:44.880 --> 00:37:47.360
that got me out of that opening sequence is the71300:37:47.480 --> 00:37:51.280
parade when Ron's on his dad's shoulders, right and we71400:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.599
see the veterans and he's so excited to see them.71500:37:54.880 --> 00:37:57.360
But for me, I almost felt like he didn't see71600:37:57.920 --> 00:38:01.599
the disabled. I felt like he saw through them because71700:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.559
in the back of his mind he still has that71800:38:05.000 --> 00:38:09.519
ideal sense of Ooh, when I get older, I'm gonna serve,71900:38:10.079 --> 00:38:12.519
and not seeing like there is a cost if you72000:38:12.599 --> 00:38:14.719
go out there and serve, and he's missing that. He's72100:38:14.800 --> 00:38:18.000
just excited of seeing the soldiers. That's how I interpreted72200:38:18.039 --> 00:38:20.679
it watching it. Sure's I guess there's a lot of72300:38:20.760 --> 00:38:25.280
irony clear foreshadowing all right for me for a scene,72400:38:25.719 --> 00:38:29.519
and it is when Ron decides that he's going to72500:38:29.639 --> 00:38:32.840
go to Vietnam and it's the nine of the prom72600:38:33.320 --> 00:38:36.920
and he finally gets the courage to ask Donna. But72700:38:37.280 --> 00:38:40.239
Donna heard that Ron was going someone else, so She's72800:38:40.320 --> 00:38:43.480
going to the prom with someone else. And throughout this72900:38:43.559 --> 00:38:45.679
whole beating of the movie, you know, Donna has a73000:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.559
thing for Ron, and Ron's just oblivious to it. And73100:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.639
I'm like, oh God, that was so me back then.73200:38:50.800 --> 00:38:53.159
I just never knew when someone liked me, So I73300:38:53.239 --> 00:38:55.639
was like, oh, I'm feeling the pain. Yeah, it can't73400:38:55.639 --> 00:38:58.360
be any more obvious that Donna has the thing for Ron.73500:38:58.920 --> 00:39:01.840
Ron's in his living room. I'm talking to his dad73600:39:01.960 --> 00:39:06.199
and the newscast about the war, and Ron's dad says,73700:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.239
I don't know, thirteen hundred miles, that's a long way73800:39:09.320 --> 00:39:12.960
to go to fight a war. And Ron's mom comes73900:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.000
in the room and she sits down, and Ron comes74000:39:16.079 --> 00:39:18.000
back with, basically, you're opening quote, don't you know what74100:39:18.119 --> 00:39:19.360
this means to me to be a marine?74200:39:19.440 --> 00:39:19.639
Dad?74300:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.199
Ever since I was a kid, I wanted this. I74400:39:22.280 --> 00:39:24.519
wanted to serve my country, and I want to go.74500:39:25.039 --> 00:39:27.360
I want to go to Vietnam and I'll die there74600:39:27.400 --> 00:39:32.599
if I have to. And Ron's father basically just responds with,74700:39:33.199 --> 00:39:36.199
not a nice night for the prom. He just doesn't74800:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.320
know what to say, And then we cut to Ron74900:39:38.599 --> 00:39:43.519
in his bedroom and his mom is very religious, and75000:39:43.760 --> 00:39:47.719
he's basically asking Jesus, am I making the right decision,75100:39:47.840 --> 00:39:50.159
Please give me a sign let me know I'm making75200:39:50.199 --> 00:39:52.719
the right decision to go out to Vietnam. This is75300:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.400
the first time he has just a little bit of75400:39:54.519 --> 00:39:58.800
doubt because it seems like his dad, who has served,75500:39:59.159 --> 00:40:02.000
doesn't want him to go. So why is his dad75600:40:02.119 --> 00:40:04.480
saying that? And why are some of his friends that75700:40:04.800 --> 00:40:07.400
he's told that he's going over don't feel like he75800:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.880
should be doing this, So a little bit of doubts75900:40:09.880 --> 00:40:12.239
creeping in. After he asked Jesus first sign, we have76000:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.760
our running scene and we see Ron running through the76100:40:15.920 --> 00:40:18.280
rain and we see that he's heading to the high76200:40:18.280 --> 00:40:23.119
school where there's the problem. Cut to the probably the gymnasium,76300:40:23.280 --> 00:40:25.920
and everyone's in there dancing, and we see some of76400:40:26.039 --> 00:40:29.239
Ron's friends that see Ron see that he's all soaking wet,76500:40:29.440 --> 00:40:32.079
and Ron's making his way through the prom and then76600:40:32.159 --> 00:40:36.119
we see Donna dancing with her date and Ron comes76700:40:36.199 --> 00:40:39.119
up to them and ask Donna if he can have76800:40:39.280 --> 00:40:43.960
a dance. Donna says yes, and they start dancing even76900:40:44.000 --> 00:40:47.440
though Ron is soaking wet, and you see this look77000:40:47.519 --> 00:40:51.599
come over Donna's face that she's just like, finally, but77100:40:51.719 --> 00:40:54.679
then at the same time her look changes again because77200:40:55.159 --> 00:40:57.679
it's like, oh, he finally realized, but now he's going77300:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.519
away and now I might not ever see him again.77400:41:00.920 --> 00:41:03.239
She does a lot in her face in those few77500:41:03.360 --> 00:41:06.480
seconds that she's excited, but at the same time she's77600:41:06.519 --> 00:41:09.280
heartbroken because she doesn't know what's going to happen to77700:41:09.440 --> 00:41:12.760
Ron in the future. And then they kiss and we77800:41:12.880 --> 00:41:16.079
hear moon River playing over the dance, and then it77900:41:16.199 --> 00:41:19.840
slowly fades to black, and then the next scene is78000:41:20.320 --> 00:41:24.360
we pan down and we see a battalion in Vietnam.78100:41:24.840 --> 00:41:28.480
So to me, it's pretty powerful stuff. They could have78200:41:28.559 --> 00:41:30.320
just had a life with Donna, they could have had78300:41:30.360 --> 00:41:32.519
a family, and Rod made a change that it's going78400:41:32.599 --> 00:41:35.440
to change his life and Donna's life, and scary that78500:41:35.519 --> 00:41:37.119
he does have that little bit of talent going in.78600:41:37.480 --> 00:41:41.719
Yeah, that's fantastic, man, A great, great call on that78700:41:41.840 --> 00:41:46.440
whole sequence, because as you were describing it, just I mean,78800:41:46.519 --> 00:41:49.079
I was replaying every moment in my mind's eye, just78900:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.159
seeing the movie in my head, and that first half79000:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.800
of the sequence when he's at home and he's almost79100:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.840
in a way like pleading with his father too. He's79200:41:57.880 --> 00:42:01.000
looking for this confirmation bias, right, he's looking for like,79300:42:01.239 --> 00:42:03.800
hey man, you got to fight and work. Grandfather got fight.79400:42:04.039 --> 00:42:07.719
Now it's my turn. This is a scene of innocence79500:42:08.119 --> 00:42:12.280
versus experience. You have the innocent Roan Kovic, the young79600:42:12.440 --> 00:42:16.400
Rankovic here just thinking it's my time now to step79700:42:16.519 --> 00:42:18.360
up and be a man. This is what it means79800:42:18.400 --> 00:42:20.760
to be a man in this country. I have to79900:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.480
go fight for my country and this is how I80000:42:23.679 --> 00:42:26.679
will earn respect and this is what you're supposed to do,80100:42:27.599 --> 00:42:30.519
especially in his particular family. This is what he feels80200:42:30.639 --> 00:42:33.599
like is the right thing to do is to protect80300:42:33.639 --> 00:42:36.320
the country and defend the ideas of this country in80400:42:36.400 --> 00:42:40.039
our way of life. And there's his father, just skeptical.80500:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.400
You would think, you know, you're watching the scene and80600:42:42.440 --> 00:42:44.519
immediately like, oh, you know, his dad's going to be raw.80700:42:44.639 --> 00:42:46.800
Rah my ghosts son, I'm so proud of you for80800:42:46.920 --> 00:42:50.760
making this decision. But it's the opposite. He's quite concerned80900:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.679
and that really shocks him. You can see it on81000:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.119
his face. He's like, why aren't you getting behind me81100:42:56.199 --> 00:42:59.519
on this? Dad, and so that's just to see that81200:43:00.280 --> 00:43:03.280
position there in point of view is really impactful. And81300:43:03.360 --> 00:43:05.159
then the fact that he goes to pray, So then81400:43:05.199 --> 00:43:08.400
you put religion on top of it. He's wants to81500:43:08.480 --> 00:43:11.559
do this not just for he's fighting for the righteous here.81600:43:11.599 --> 00:43:14.480
It's not just bors country, but for God as well.81700:43:14.599 --> 00:43:17.440
So it's kind of you know, you add that additional layer.81800:43:17.800 --> 00:43:20.639
But yeah, when it's so romantic when he goes to81900:43:20.719 --> 00:43:25.000
the prom, super super romantic, almost on a saccharine level,82000:43:25.119 --> 00:43:27.559
and I buy every bit of it. It's great when82100:43:27.639 --> 00:43:32.159
he cuts in and grabs Donna and kisses her. I82200:43:32.280 --> 00:43:35.119
believe every moment of it. But especially after the kiss,82300:43:35.159 --> 00:43:39.000
when he holds her is like, oh, man, tug at82400:43:39.039 --> 00:43:42.119
the heartstrings. He needs her so much in that moment.82500:43:42.599 --> 00:43:45.199
And you said it well though, just the reaction on82600:43:45.280 --> 00:43:49.079
her face, the transition in her face of feeling the82700:43:49.199 --> 00:43:54.079
love but then ultimately fear as well. So yeah, it's82800:43:54.199 --> 00:43:56.840
it's a great, great sequence. What do you got next,82900:43:57.480 --> 00:44:00.920
I've got Ronnie comes home, I say, because this is83000:44:01.000 --> 00:44:03.159
what of his parents still call him, you know, they'll83100:44:03.199 --> 00:44:06.239
always see him as their little Ronnie, and he is83200:44:06.360 --> 00:44:08.840
now returning home for the first time after the war.83300:44:08.960 --> 00:44:12.880
He's been through just a traumatic experience in the VA hospital,83400:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.840
learning of course that he is paralyzed, that he will83500:44:15.880 --> 00:44:19.239
never feel anything in his body from the midchest downward83600:44:19.320 --> 00:44:22.280
for the rest of his life. And he's still coping83700:44:22.360 --> 00:44:26.360
and accepting that fact and very much seems in denial83800:44:26.480 --> 00:44:30.199
for some time. But he returns to Massapequa in nineteen83900:44:30.280 --> 00:44:33.920
sixty nine. His dad drives him home, pulls up in84000:44:34.000 --> 00:44:37.559
the station wagon. His dad comes right around to the84100:44:37.639 --> 00:44:41.480
passenger side door, helping Ron get into his wheelchair. And84200:44:42.159 --> 00:44:47.960
you can see already immediately Ron wanting to prove himself84300:44:48.000 --> 00:44:50.199
to everyone from the get because this is first impression84400:44:50.480 --> 00:44:53.119
after coming home. So he's trying to say, I got84500:44:53.199 --> 00:44:54.760
I can do this, I can get in the wheelchair.84600:44:54.760 --> 00:44:58.199
I don't need your help, And the neighborhood is teeming84700:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.079
with activity, kids in the street, neighbors looking out their84800:45:01.119 --> 00:45:03.960
windows seeing that Ron's come home again. His dad tries84900:45:04.000 --> 00:45:05.480
to help in the wheelchair, and he just says, I85000:45:05.559 --> 00:45:08.280
got it, I got it, I got it, And you're like, oh, yeah,85100:45:08.559 --> 00:45:11.119
He's already got a lot to prove here, or feels85200:45:11.199 --> 00:45:14.519
like he does. And Ron keeps commenting on how it's85300:45:14.559 --> 00:45:16.800
good to be home, how everything looks so different, and85400:45:16.880 --> 00:45:19.760
he greets the dog. His brother Tommy comes out to85500:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.360
greet him. All of his brothers and sisters, the neighbors85600:45:22.400 --> 00:45:24.639
start coming over, and now you can start to see85700:45:24.760 --> 00:45:30.199
the looks on people's faces, how they react to seeing Ron,85800:45:30.800 --> 00:45:34.519
a veteran coming back from Vietnam in a wheelchair. He85900:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.840
has no use of his legs now and Ron at86000:45:37.920 --> 00:45:41.480
one point almost slips from the wheelchairs it hits a86100:45:41.519 --> 00:45:44.519
bump on the lawn, and then immediately of course, reassures86200:45:44.559 --> 00:45:46.800
everyone he's okay. He tries to make a joke about86300:45:47.000 --> 00:45:50.239
not being able to feel anything, and he's playing things86400:45:50.280 --> 00:45:52.519
off and he's covering, and there's just a real solid86500:45:52.599 --> 00:45:55.119
moment when he catches a glance from his brother Tommy,86600:45:55.320 --> 00:45:57.599
who is hiding his feelings with the way he's looking86700:45:57.639 --> 00:46:00.880
at Ron, and Ron sees what's happening. This is Tom Cruise.86800:46:00.920 --> 00:46:02.800
There are these little moments where Tom Cruise is just86900:46:03.440 --> 00:46:07.079
brilliant and his reactions to other people's reactions. So his87000:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.280
mother finally comes out. She's actually taken a moment. She87100:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.119
doesn't come out immediately with everyone else, and she waits87200:46:13.360 --> 00:46:16.119
she gathers herself, comes out to greet him and is87300:46:16.320 --> 00:46:20.599
very loving and immediately becomes teary eyed and she can't87400:46:20.639 --> 00:46:24.400
take it. She says, hi, and obviously she loves him,87500:46:24.400 --> 00:46:26.800
but she has to go back inside, and that affects87600:46:26.920 --> 00:46:29.320
Ron on a level. The neighbors greet him. He does87700:46:29.719 --> 00:46:33.000
then eventually get back inside. His dad is now like87800:46:33.159 --> 00:46:35.079
giving him a tour of the house at this point,87900:46:35.480 --> 00:46:37.800
just getting him reacquainted with how things have changed. He's sick.88000:46:37.840 --> 00:46:41.639
I made alterations to accommodate you, widening doorways, and I88100:46:41.760 --> 00:46:44.119
put a handle on the toilet for you. And Ron88200:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.159
goes immediately into his old bedroom looks at a younger88300:46:48.199 --> 00:46:51.000
picture of himself as an able bodied wrestler, just a88400:46:51.079 --> 00:46:53.440
couple of years previous, and it's tough. This is the88500:46:53.519 --> 00:46:55.880
part that gets me, and I'm already getting emotional thinking88600:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.400
about is his dad comes to him in his room88700:46:58.480 --> 00:47:01.119
and leads just leans down to hold him and he says,88800:47:01.159 --> 00:47:03.079
it's good to have you. It's good to have you, Ronnie,88900:47:03.280 --> 00:47:06.719
and he cries and it's just like, oh my god,89000:47:07.239 --> 00:47:09.599
it's brutal. And then he gets up and this is89100:47:09.679 --> 00:47:12.960
Raymond J. Barry cred to him as an actor, it's awful.89200:47:13.360 --> 00:47:15.679
You're just heart goes out to him, you having empathy89300:47:15.719 --> 00:47:17.599
as a parent and a father in this moment, just89400:47:17.760 --> 00:47:19.880
like with his mother as well. But his father says,89500:47:20.039 --> 00:47:21.440
come on, I'll show you, I'll show you some of89600:47:21.440 --> 00:47:23.079
the new stuff we got in the bedroom over here.89700:47:23.159 --> 00:47:26.679
But his voice is shaking and he's crying the whole time.89800:47:27.280 --> 00:47:29.719
Jay Berry is just excellent in the scene. Cruise is awesome,89900:47:30.000 --> 00:47:32.960
Caroline Cobba is awesome, his brother Tommy's awesome. Cruise is90000:47:33.000 --> 00:47:35.760
constantly saying how everyone looks great and everything's great, but90100:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.039
it clearly isn't. Everything's changed. It's a tough scene, but90200:47:39.920 --> 00:47:41.480
I think I said everything I need to say. It's90300:47:41.880 --> 00:47:45.039
just well well performed, and you just are already feeling90400:47:45.159 --> 00:47:47.840
the weight of how things are now going to be90500:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.199
different forever for Ronnie and his family.90600:47:51.639 --> 00:47:54.920
Yeah, that is a good scene because here's ron trying90700:47:54.960 --> 00:47:59.480
to be super positive, overly positive to reassure his family90800:47:59.559 --> 00:48:02.119
that everything thing is going to be okay. But yeah,90900:48:02.159 --> 00:48:04.159
they have a long road ahead of them, you know,91000:48:04.280 --> 00:48:08.559
the day to day with having to adjust to ron91100:48:08.639 --> 00:48:11.599
being in a wheelchair, and it is tough, and the91200:48:11.639 --> 00:48:15.039
neighbors being supportive and coming over and yes, they're gonna91300:48:15.199 --> 00:48:17.960
do those glances and stuff. And we do find out91400:48:18.039 --> 00:48:20.039
later on in the movie a lot of the kids91500:48:20.199 --> 00:48:22.880
that did go over from that area did not come91600:48:23.000 --> 00:48:27.639
back right. So that's even harder too, because maybe some91700:48:27.719 --> 00:48:30.719
of those families have a little bit of guilt, why91800:48:30.760 --> 00:48:32.920
did Ron come back and not such and such for91900:48:33.079 --> 00:48:35.840
my kid. I can only imagine as a parent, you know,92000:48:35.920 --> 00:48:37.679
you have to put up such a front. You know,92100:48:37.760 --> 00:48:39.920
here's Ron being positive, and it's like, oh man, I92200:48:40.000 --> 00:48:41.920
got to match that now, you know, to make him92300:48:41.920 --> 00:48:44.679
feel like everything's going to be okay. And in the92400:48:44.760 --> 00:48:46.840
back of your mind, you're thinking of everything that you're92500:48:46.880 --> 00:48:49.159
gonna have to deal with now, how much their lives92600:48:49.199 --> 00:48:51.920
have changed from a day to day basis. So when92700:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.960
you really think about it, it's it's a tough scene.92800:48:55.000 --> 00:48:55.880
It's really it really is.92900:48:56.400 --> 00:48:59.400
Yeah, when his dad cries that, it absolutely destroys me93000:48:59.559 --> 00:49:02.719
because of the previous scene you just described Bill Bant.93100:49:03.079 --> 00:49:06.719
What's going through his mind thinking should he have said93200:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.280
more to his son to try to convince him not93300:49:09.440 --> 00:49:11.519
to go. You know, as a parent, you feel like93400:49:11.679 --> 00:49:14.800
you're supposed to protect your child. That's the bottom line.93500:49:15.119 --> 00:49:18.639
And he I think understands why Ron, his son went93600:49:18.760 --> 00:49:22.679
to Vietnam, clearly, But now this has happened, there's just93700:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.800
got to be so many thoughts, so many thoughts going93800:49:25.840 --> 00:49:27.199
through his father's mind at that point.93900:49:27.599 --> 00:49:30.559
Yeah. So this takes me to one of my favorite scenes,94000:49:30.840 --> 00:49:35.119
and this is Ron is supposedly drunk again. You know,94100:49:35.320 --> 00:49:38.480
Ron is getting disillusioned with the war. He's seen all94200:49:38.519 --> 00:49:41.960
the negative press, and he's going out now with his94300:49:42.079 --> 00:49:45.760
friends and drinking way too much, getting sloppy drunk, and94400:49:45.880 --> 00:49:50.440
once again he's brought home and his mom comes in94500:49:50.920 --> 00:49:55.360
and admonishes him for drinking. This is the first time94600:49:55.480 --> 00:49:59.920
really Ron is expressing doubt that he shouldn't have went,94700:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.079
that he made a mistake, he shouldn't have gone. He94800:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.480
starts having a yelling match with his mom, and his94900:50:07.760 --> 00:50:10.800
dad intervenes and he's trying to play the peacemaker, and95000:50:11.360 --> 00:50:14.280
Ron is talking about how he's almost blaming his mom95100:50:14.440 --> 00:50:17.679
for sending him over there, and he's talking about with95200:50:17.880 --> 00:50:20.599
Jesus and how Jesus only has spent three days in95300:50:20.639 --> 00:50:22.559
the cross and then he has to spend the rest95400:50:22.599 --> 00:50:25.199
of his life in a wheelchair. And he was supposed95500:50:25.199 --> 00:50:29.280
to go to Vietnam to stop communism, and he ended95600:50:29.360 --> 00:50:33.239
up shooting women and children. And Ron's mom's like, what95700:50:33.280 --> 00:50:35.599
are you talking about. You didn't shoot women and children.95800:50:35.920 --> 00:50:40.079
What are you saying? Ron says, that was the war communism,95900:50:40.320 --> 00:50:44.880
insiduous evil. They told us to go, and Ron's mom agrees, Yeah,96000:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.639
that's what they told us. And then Ron goes, now,96100:50:47.719 --> 00:50:51.039
shall not kill, MoMu shall not kill women and children,96200:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.400
shall not kill. Remember, isn't that what you taught us.96300:50:54.880 --> 00:50:57.679
Isn't that what they taught us, which is one of96400:50:57.960 --> 00:51:01.519
the commandments in Christianity, shall not kill? And then yet96500:51:01.760 --> 00:51:04.400
he's over there killing and not even killing what's supposed96600:51:04.400 --> 00:51:06.360
to be the enemy. They're killing women and children. And96700:51:06.440 --> 00:51:08.679
there is a scene in the movie where they come96800:51:08.800 --> 00:51:11.320
upon a village and then up shooting a lot of96900:51:11.519 --> 00:51:13.760
women and kids, thinking that the enemy was in there97000:51:13.800 --> 00:51:17.039
and there wasn't, and Ron's mom starts yelling at him,97100:51:17.079 --> 00:51:20.199
stop it, stop it, and that's when Ron says, it's97200:51:20.239 --> 00:51:22.639
a fucking lie. There is no God. God is as97300:51:22.679 --> 00:51:25.639
dead as my legs. There is no gods, there's no country,97400:51:25.679 --> 00:51:29.960
it's nothing. I don't believe him anymore. And at this97500:51:30.079 --> 00:51:33.000
point Ron's mom just like, get out of my house,97600:51:33.079 --> 00:51:36.199
Get out of my house. Then Ron's really upset. He's97700:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.119
like basically says, you know, I'm crippled. I'm never going97800:51:39.199 --> 00:51:41.519
to be able to have kids. And that's when that's97900:51:41.559 --> 00:51:45.400
the big, the big Penis argument, where yeah, Ron says98000:51:45.559 --> 00:51:49.119
penis and Moss like, don't say penis in this house.98100:51:49.360 --> 00:51:53.199
It's like penis, penis, big fucking erect penis. Mom.98200:51:53.840 --> 00:51:57.480
At this point, Ron's mom's just had it, and Ron's98300:51:57.599 --> 00:52:01.239
father eventually takes Ron to his room and tells them,98400:52:01.320 --> 00:52:04.599
you know what, maybe it's time that I guess there's98500:52:04.639 --> 00:52:08.679
some kind of VA camp in Mexico that he's heard about,98600:52:08.719 --> 00:52:11.320
that maybe Ron needs a couple of days away from98700:52:11.360 --> 00:52:13.239
the home. And at first Ron doesn't want to go,98800:52:13.440 --> 00:52:17.000
but Ronstad's kind of, yeah, I think you should think98900:52:17.039 --> 00:52:21.960
about it. So Ron really has doubts he made a99000:52:22.039 --> 00:52:26.480
mistake and having a conflict with his mom at least,99100:52:26.519 --> 00:52:31.559
who's very religious and a very god fearing woman, and99200:52:32.519 --> 00:52:35.320
he's kind of like, I don't believe what you believe,99300:52:36.119 --> 00:52:39.840
and you should see what they're telling us be a lie.99400:52:40.280 --> 00:52:43.079
So we think of Tom Cruise as a movie star.99500:52:43.519 --> 00:52:45.480
This is a scene where he's definitely an actor.99600:52:45.920 --> 00:52:49.559
Yeah, thousand percent on that one. So glad you chose99700:52:49.639 --> 00:52:53.000
this scene had to be in there stellar performance from Cruise,99800:52:53.039 --> 00:52:57.519
I agree. The scene is absolutely loaded. And what helps99900:52:57.679 --> 00:53:01.039
me doing this podcast is and I have questions in100000:53:01.079 --> 00:53:03.639
the beginning of my initial thoughts about whether or not100100:53:03.920 --> 00:53:07.360
there's enough evidence as to why ron Covid makes a100200:53:07.480 --> 00:53:10.079
turn here or there. It's all there now, you know,100300:53:10.119 --> 00:53:11.880
when we especially when we talk about this scene, and100400:53:11.880 --> 00:53:14.880
I believe does this scene take place after he's gone100500:53:14.920 --> 00:53:19.199
to visit Kira Sedgwick Donna in Syracuse and sees the100600:53:19.280 --> 00:53:21.519
protests there. I think it does, doesn't it.100700:53:21.960 --> 00:53:23.159
Ooh, that's a good question.100800:53:23.960 --> 00:53:27.239
I don't remember, you know, Gosh, you were talking about100900:53:27.239 --> 00:53:29.599
this too. Is when I was talking about when Ronnie101000:53:29.639 --> 00:53:32.920
comes home, right, and this particular town has lost a101100:53:33.039 --> 00:53:36.960
handful if not more young boys to this war, and101200:53:37.239 --> 00:53:40.039
ron as a survivor, and then we do see there's101300:53:40.039 --> 00:53:43.199
another scene where he's with his best friend Timmy from101400:53:43.239 --> 00:53:46.000
the neighborhood, who also went to the war and was wounded,101500:53:46.679 --> 00:53:49.599
and then they're shooting the shit about all the other101600:53:49.679 --> 00:53:52.599
guys from the area. That didn't make it and kind101700:53:52.639 --> 00:53:54.440
of laughing about it because that's the only thing they101800:53:54.480 --> 00:53:58.039
can do. That's how they deal with it. Now Ron101900:53:58.360 --> 00:54:01.400
is hanging out with Tim and just get and shitfaced102000:54:01.880 --> 00:54:04.800
because he's self medicating clearly and covering all of this102100:54:05.000 --> 00:54:08.639
trauma that is swelling up within him. And this is102200:54:08.719 --> 00:54:13.400
the release, and it's it's brutal. Yeah, he's very entire102300:54:13.480 --> 00:54:18.039
he's clearly extremely intoxicated, but now his true feelings are102400:54:18.079 --> 00:54:21.480
coming up because he's seen the protests or he knows102500:54:21.559 --> 00:54:24.480
of them. He knows of this anti war sentiment and102600:54:24.719 --> 00:54:29.639
also is starting to understand the anger and clearly has102700:54:29.760 --> 00:54:32.239
so much anger within himself for you know, and there102800:54:32.320 --> 00:54:34.199
is a lot of self pity and self loathing in102900:54:34.280 --> 00:54:37.199
the scene, so he's playing that and there's so much103000:54:37.280 --> 00:54:39.960
denial on his mother's part too, and she's playing it103100:54:40.000 --> 00:54:43.000
to a tigue. And credit to Caroline Kava as the actress.103200:54:43.639 --> 00:54:48.039
So there's so many levels going on here, and it103300:54:48.239 --> 00:54:52.239
ends up in that verbal explosion and to even put103400:54:52.280 --> 00:54:56.000
a little comedy in it when he's screaming penis, you103500:54:56.079 --> 00:54:58.079
can't help but laugh a little bit because it's so103600:54:58.719 --> 00:55:04.039
awkward but emotional, like it's just everything all at once,103700:55:04.840 --> 00:55:08.000
so it's a really heavy scene. And then to have103800:55:08.199 --> 00:55:11.599
it reach that crescendo in that height of volume, to103900:55:11.719 --> 00:55:14.159
have it come back down when he finally goes back104000:55:14.159 --> 00:55:15.840
to his room and his dad is putting him to104100:55:15.920 --> 00:55:18.559
bed and saying, hey, I think it's best that you104200:55:18.719 --> 00:55:22.480
go to Mexico, which is going to be you know,104300:55:22.559 --> 00:55:24.760
I'm gonna kind of touch upon that next here in104400:55:24.800 --> 00:55:26.880
my next favorite scene. But yeah, this whole thing is104500:55:27.320 --> 00:55:30.480
it's a tour to force of performances and playing different104600:55:31.239 --> 00:55:34.320
emotional levels, so they're all going through it here. It104700:55:34.400 --> 00:55:38.880
all boils over in this scene. So yeah, my next104800:55:39.159 --> 00:55:43.280
favorite scene is I'm calling it. Ron finds some kind104900:55:43.559 --> 00:55:49.960
of release or maybe relief. So upon his father's suggestion,105000:55:50.480 --> 00:55:54.760
Ron goes to Via Dulce or Via Dulce in Mexico,105100:55:55.280 --> 00:55:59.440
which is a veteran retreat, a veteran camp, as you105200:55:59.480 --> 00:56:02.079
put it, Bill, or you know, in an area where105300:56:02.320 --> 00:56:06.800
expats congregate. And here in this particular town, we have105400:56:06.880 --> 00:56:11.000
a lot of disabled veterans where they're on permanent vacation.105500:56:11.360 --> 00:56:14.920
Let's just put it that way. And Ron goes down105600:56:14.960 --> 00:56:16.760
there and just kind of has his eyes opened by105700:56:16.840 --> 00:56:21.280
this scene where he meets these other disabled veterans gambling105800:56:21.440 --> 00:56:24.360
and drinking their existence away, and he sees and learns105900:56:24.519 --> 00:56:27.639
of all the prostitutes that hang out here, and it's106000:56:27.760 --> 00:56:30.199
clearly a lifestyle, it's a way of doing things. It's106100:56:30.239 --> 00:56:34.719
a transactional relationship benefiting everyone, and it's a little bit106200:56:34.760 --> 00:56:37.719
of respite carved out here in this town in Mexico106300:56:37.840 --> 00:56:40.559
for these veterans. So he goes to the local watering106400:56:40.639 --> 00:56:43.599
hole and he meets a beautiful hooker in her name106500:56:44.039 --> 00:56:48.519
is Maria Elena. Shout out to Cordelia Gonzalez as the106600:56:48.920 --> 00:56:53.960
prostitute Maria Elena. She takes him upstairs, she asks him106700:56:54.000 --> 00:56:56.920
for the money up front, and Ron makes it very106800:56:57.119 --> 00:57:00.079
very clear that his lower extremities do not work, and106900:57:00.159 --> 00:57:03.840
she doesn't care. She still undresses him, straddles him, she107000:57:04.159 --> 00:57:07.360
rides him, and she orgasms, or at least does a107100:57:07.400 --> 00:57:11.920
hell of a job pretending she's orgasming, and throughout this107200:57:12.199 --> 00:57:16.360
entire sequence she's quite tender with him, and she's obviously107300:57:16.639 --> 00:57:20.800
done this with other veterans, and she's quite experienced at107400:57:20.800 --> 00:57:24.480
what she does. She's a professional. And this is a107500:57:24.679 --> 00:57:28.400
scene that definitely makes you feel a lot of things107600:57:28.559 --> 00:57:33.960
because Ron can't feel anything. He knows it. He's scared107700:57:34.480 --> 00:57:40.400
in this scene and he's embarrassed, and he has needs107800:57:40.480 --> 00:57:44.719
those still to receive affection and to feel love of107900:57:44.840 --> 00:57:47.880
some kind, if it is only maybe it's even if108000:57:47.920 --> 00:57:50.719
it's just sexual and it's just in his mind or108100:57:50.800 --> 00:57:56.039
in his heart. But Ron breaks down multiple times. He108200:57:56.239 --> 00:58:02.840
is full out crying while she is making love to him,108300:58:03.280 --> 00:58:06.960
even if it's fake, if it's just for pretend. So108400:58:07.239 --> 00:58:11.039
he's just going through everything, and it is again a108500:58:11.239 --> 00:58:14.440
release on so many levels for him because you feel108600:58:15.000 --> 00:58:18.159
so terrible for him and you know what he's dealing108700:58:18.199 --> 00:58:21.119
with initially. But I think his crying, if you will,108800:58:21.159 --> 00:58:23.400
and again credit to Cruz for this, is that it108900:58:24.039 --> 00:58:29.039
transitions from that self loathing to almost a thank God,109000:58:29.480 --> 00:58:33.039
I'm feeling something here and I'm able to feel some109100:58:33.360 --> 00:58:37.000
sort of connection with a woman and to feel her109200:58:37.159 --> 00:58:39.239
touch and to know what that feels like, because he109300:58:39.320 --> 00:58:41.719
can still feel things from the chest up and he109400:58:41.760 --> 00:58:44.840
can see he still has emotions and he still has thoughts.109500:58:44.920 --> 00:58:49.119
So after the sequence, he comes back down to the109600:58:49.199 --> 00:58:52.679
area with all the other veterans gambling and drinking away109700:58:52.800 --> 00:58:57.639
and there's Willem Dafoe as Charlie. His character is introduced109800:58:57.679 --> 00:59:01.320
and down here in this setting, and Willem Dafoe is109900:59:01.400 --> 00:59:03.760
quite experienced in the ways of the ladies, the ways110000:59:03.800 --> 00:59:06.039
of the women of the night here, and so he110100:59:06.199 --> 00:59:09.039
sees the smile on Ron Kovic's face after Ron has110200:59:09.119 --> 00:59:12.840
had his time with Maria Elena, and Dafoe says, she110300:59:13.000 --> 00:59:16.079
loves you, right, tiger, and you just see rod Kovic110400:59:16.199 --> 00:59:18.400
likes smiling, going, yeah, thanks a lot, it was great,110500:59:18.719 --> 00:59:22.480
and says, just remember, keep one hand on our tits110600:59:22.519 --> 00:59:26.960
and one on your wallet. Paradise, right man. It's just110700:59:27.519 --> 00:59:31.719
Defoe's the shit man. And it just appears that Ron110800:59:31.960 --> 00:59:35.800
is smitten. He's quite taken with Maria Elena, and in110900:59:35.880 --> 00:59:37.679
the next sequence he seems to be on top of111000:59:37.719 --> 00:59:41.280
the world, wheeling his wheelchair through town and he finds111100:59:41.480 --> 00:59:43.679
a store where he buys Maria a gift, and when111200:59:43.719 --> 00:59:47.199
he returns to the bar slash brothel, he sees Maria111300:59:47.239 --> 00:59:50.840
Elena coming down the stairs with another man and she's111400:59:51.480 --> 00:59:55.440
actually grabbing his crutch, and immediately he is broken hearted.111500:59:55.920 --> 00:59:59.639
But Maria Elena just sees this as business and comes111600:59:59.719 --> 01:00:03.599
over to Ron and says, so we get married today. No,111701:00:04.519 --> 01:00:09.320
and in a very sarcastic direct manner, Ron responds, yeah, yeah,111801:00:09.400 --> 01:00:14.840
that'd be great. So heartbreaking. But ladies and gentlemen listeners,111901:00:14.960 --> 01:00:18.400
we understand it's tough choosing. These aren't like favorite scenes112001:00:18.440 --> 01:00:20.639
in the way that they feel good scenes. There's no112101:00:20.800 --> 01:00:24.840
real feel good scenes in this movie. They're just great scenes.112201:00:24.920 --> 01:00:27.280
And this is, for me, another great scene where it's112301:00:27.440 --> 01:00:31.440
just Ron going through it one day at a time,112401:00:31.760 --> 01:00:35.239
one stage at a time, and learning what it is112501:00:35.360 --> 01:00:38.400
going to be like living paralyzed. Yeah.112601:00:38.480 --> 01:00:40.840
Well, we say favorite scenes is a scene that hits112701:00:40.920 --> 01:00:43.360
us in some sort of way. And I understand why112801:00:43.519 --> 01:00:48.320
you chose this, because this whole movie is Ron being112901:00:48.440 --> 01:00:52.360
so innocent about stuff and almost kind of learning after113001:00:52.480 --> 01:00:55.559
the fact. And again here it is with Maria. This113101:00:55.760 --> 01:00:59.760
woman takes them upstairs and they do what they can113201:00:59.840 --> 01:01:04.159
with what they have functioning. And because I mean Ron113301:01:04.280 --> 01:01:07.199
is a virgin, Yeah, he thinks he's fallen in love113401:01:07.719 --> 01:01:10.360
when he doesn't realize. Like when you meet the other Vets,113501:01:10.360 --> 01:01:12.239
they understand. They're like, Hey, we're getting money from the113601:01:12.320 --> 01:01:14.480
government and we're just going to spend it on women113701:01:14.599 --> 01:01:18.079
and tequila. So they know what they're doing down there.113801:01:18.280 --> 01:01:22.000
Ron still near to the game and he doesn't understand113901:01:22.079 --> 01:01:25.159
until it's too late, and it hurts. Yeah, you feel114001:01:25.159 --> 01:01:26.599
bad for a little bit. But he has the gift114101:01:26.920 --> 01:01:28.840
and you just see him kind of try to tuck114201:01:28.920 --> 01:01:31.920
it before she comes over to talk to him. What114301:01:32.079 --> 01:01:34.039
did you expect? He really thinks she's going to run114401:01:34.079 --> 01:01:37.199
off with you. I don't know, So it just hurts.114501:01:37.239 --> 01:01:39.639
He's got to learn that really fast and learned hard.114601:01:39.800 --> 01:01:41.840
So it's a tough scene, but it hits.114701:01:41.960 --> 01:01:46.320
It hits, Yeah, it hits hard. And credit to Cordela Gonzalez.114801:01:46.760 --> 01:01:49.599
She's really good in a scene. She's so tender with him.114901:01:50.199 --> 01:01:55.119
She's very attractive, and she is so confident and she115001:01:55.400 --> 01:01:58.480
really takes care of him. Yes, so I appreciated that.115101:01:58.840 --> 01:02:02.840
It is a very experience for him, but you're absolutely right,115201:02:02.920 --> 01:02:06.000
he does fall in love. It is this continuing journey115301:02:06.000 --> 01:02:08.480
from innocence to experience and it's a quick lesson and115401:02:08.559 --> 01:02:11.559
a hard lesson for him to learn. So great scene.115501:02:11.920 --> 01:02:16.000
Yeah, Well for me, for my final scene, a favorite scene,115601:02:16.039 --> 01:02:18.320
but it's a scene that really stands out and very115701:02:18.360 --> 01:02:23.159
impactful is when Ron goes to the Wilson's home to115801:02:23.239 --> 01:02:26.239
tell him what happened to his son in Vietnam. So115901:02:26.360 --> 01:02:30.079
early in the movie, when Ron is in Vietnam, he116001:02:30.199 --> 01:02:33.840
meets this soldier that's just come on to their battalion.116101:02:34.039 --> 01:02:37.480
His name's Wilson, and they're talking a little bit and116201:02:38.199 --> 01:02:41.360
he finds out that Wilson's from Georgia. Of course, Wilson116301:02:41.440 --> 01:02:43.480
has the trope you see all the time. It's got116401:02:43.599 --> 01:02:45.599
to show the picture of his girl, and the girl's pregnant,116501:02:45.719 --> 01:02:49.360
so you know something's gonna happen to Wilson. And sure enough,116601:02:49.400 --> 01:02:51.760
they come on to this village, they shoot it up.116701:02:52.280 --> 01:02:55.800
They realized they killed a lot of innocent women and children,116801:02:56.159 --> 01:02:58.559
and then the Vietnam soldiers come in, so now it's116901:02:58.639 --> 01:03:01.400
just chaos there all trying to fall back and they're117001:03:01.400 --> 01:03:05.960
just shooting at anything that moves. Kovic accidentally kills Wilson117101:03:06.000 --> 01:03:08.800
because Wilson's coming over a hill just screaming and yelling,117201:03:08.960 --> 01:03:11.440
and because of the son all he sees a silhouette,117301:03:11.559 --> 01:03:14.920
so he just shoots. Unfortunately, kills Wilson. He tries to117401:03:15.039 --> 01:03:18.320
report it. Commanders don't want to hear it. Ron has117501:03:18.440 --> 01:03:21.880
this guilt and when he's in Mexico. He tries to117601:03:21.920 --> 01:03:24.679
write a letter to the family to let them know117701:03:24.960 --> 01:03:27.239
what happened to their son. And then it gets to117801:03:27.320 --> 01:03:30.000
the point where Ron is now going to go visit117901:03:30.159 --> 01:03:33.159
Wilson's family, and it starts off against in a cab.118001:03:33.280 --> 01:03:37.760
He goes of the cemetery, he sees Wilson's gravestone, and118101:03:37.920 --> 01:03:41.559
then he goes to the house. We meet Wilson's parents118201:03:41.960 --> 01:03:47.920
and Wilson's wife, who is Lily Taylor, who has a118301:03:48.000 --> 01:03:50.119
small role. Like I said, you you see a lot118401:03:50.159 --> 01:03:51.880
of these names in the credits, and they're very in118501:03:52.000 --> 01:03:55.679
for short periods of time. Lily's there with the baby,118601:03:56.039 --> 01:04:00.280
who's probably maybe two at this point, and Ron tells them,118701:04:00.440 --> 01:04:02.719
I knew your son. I know what happened to the118801:04:02.760 --> 01:04:04.840
day he died. He goes, I remember the day he118901:04:05.039 --> 01:04:08.599
was killed. It was a strange day. We were out119001:04:08.639 --> 01:04:12.079
on patrol near a beach area and it was very confusing.119101:04:12.840 --> 01:04:16.280
And while Ron's trying to tell the story, like you119201:04:16.320 --> 01:04:18.440
could see in his eyes or they're just starting to119301:04:18.559 --> 01:04:20.960
well because this just build up. He's just got to119401:04:21.000 --> 01:04:25.039
get this off his chest, and they were screaming and firing.119501:04:25.239 --> 01:04:27.920
It was getting late, and there were these children, these119601:04:28.000 --> 01:04:31.760
babies that we killed by mistake, and miss Wilson comes119701:04:31.800 --> 01:04:35.320
to him with how awful, and Ron continues and then119801:04:35.360 --> 01:04:37.960
they got really crazy and we had to pull back119901:04:38.079 --> 01:04:41.480
because the NBA were coming up on us, and we120001:04:41.599 --> 01:04:44.840
got scattered in the dunes. People were yelling at anything,120101:04:45.000 --> 01:04:48.400
firing at anything, and that's when it happened. And when120201:04:48.440 --> 01:04:51.159
he says that, you can tell that at least mister120301:04:51.239 --> 01:04:56.920
Wilson knows where this story is unfortunately going. I was confused, scared.120401:04:57.440 --> 01:05:00.679
I raised my rifle three times in shots. The body120501:05:00.719 --> 01:05:03.960
fell on the dunes. God, this is this is very120601:05:04.000 --> 01:05:06.280
difficult for me to say. Mister Wilson cuts in, like,120701:05:06.480 --> 01:05:09.159
we don't have to hear this Ron, and Ron comes120801:05:09.239 --> 01:05:12.440
back with but, mister Wilson, I think I was the120901:05:12.480 --> 01:05:14.960
one that killed your son that night. I was the one.121001:05:16.280 --> 01:05:20.840
I was the one. I was the one. And Jamie,121101:05:21.039 --> 01:05:26.000
who's really Taylor the wife says what's done is done, Sir,121201:05:26.519 --> 01:05:29.800
I can't ever forgive you, but maybe the Lord can.121301:05:30.559 --> 01:05:34.119
And then Ron's parents, Missus Wilson says, we understand Ron,121401:05:34.199 --> 01:05:36.840
we understand the pain you've been going through, and they121501:05:37.440 --> 01:05:41.199
seem to forgive them, which that's gotta be a tough121601:05:41.239 --> 01:05:45.360
thing to do for the parents, but I think, understanding121701:05:45.360 --> 01:05:47.800
everything that's been going on, it's got to be tough,121801:05:47.840 --> 01:05:50.519
but what you know, what can you do? So I121901:05:50.679 --> 01:05:53.159
pluted to the fact that they were able to forgive them,122001:05:53.320 --> 01:05:56.199
and I think even what Jamie said made a lot122101:05:56.280 --> 01:05:58.960
of sense. It's like, yeah, I can't forgive you, but122201:05:59.599 --> 01:06:02.880
in a way I almost kind of do. And then122301:06:02.920 --> 01:06:05.239
we see Ron get wheel chaired out to the cab122401:06:05.360 --> 01:06:08.440
and then he takes off, and then that's when really122501:06:08.519 --> 01:06:11.079
he decides that he's going to speak out against the war.122601:06:11.320 --> 01:06:12.360
So I'd like this.122701:06:12.440 --> 01:06:14.639
Moment, this is like the final thing he needs to122801:06:14.719 --> 01:06:18.559
do to really move forward with his life. And the122901:06:18.639 --> 01:06:21.400
fact that he can go into that family's home and123001:06:21.599 --> 01:06:25.559
sit there and tell them and he's not asking for forgiveness,123101:06:25.719 --> 01:06:28.800
He just wants them to know what happened to their son,123201:06:29.679 --> 01:06:33.920
to me, was tough. It's a powerful acting moment from Cruise.123301:06:34.440 --> 01:06:37.880
A million percent on this one. Yeah, this scene I123401:06:38.000 --> 01:06:42.320
definitely remembered before this rewatch because it is the most123501:06:42.360 --> 01:06:47.039
impactful and this is basically the final part of the123601:06:47.159 --> 01:06:50.519
turn that he makes before going into you know, a123701:06:50.599 --> 01:06:55.440
stage of activism. So yeah, it's awful to have to123801:06:55.920 --> 01:06:57.800
do this, but I think he comes to a point123901:06:57.840 --> 01:07:01.760
where this guilt and shame, it literally was eating him alive,124001:07:01.840 --> 01:07:05.280
and this was how he decided to unburden that and124101:07:05.800 --> 01:07:09.039
felt obviously that the family needed to know what really happened,124201:07:09.079 --> 01:07:11.639
that they needed to know the truth. And I think124301:07:11.920 --> 01:07:16.599
that is clearly another huge motivation because what has upset124401:07:16.719 --> 01:07:19.239
him so much and so many others so much is124501:07:19.320 --> 01:07:22.480
that there's been such lack of truth and too many124601:07:22.599 --> 01:07:27.400
lies and it's time for brutal honesty on all fronts.124701:07:27.480 --> 01:07:30.800
So this is him making an effort to be honest124801:07:30.840 --> 01:07:34.880
with himself and with them and nothing short of extremely emotional.124901:07:35.239 --> 01:07:38.679
So to get the mixed reactions I thought was very125001:07:38.760 --> 01:07:42.800
smart and the performances just from the supporting actors in125101:07:42.840 --> 01:07:45.599
the scene were brilliant, So great to see Lily Taylor.125201:07:45.760 --> 01:07:49.039
Always love that actress, Yes, we loved her and Mystic125301:07:49.079 --> 01:07:50.840
Pizza of course with that, I think she was the125401:07:50.880 --> 01:07:53.400
big standout for us in that podcast when we recovered that,125501:07:53.559 --> 01:07:56.840
So to see her in this particular small role was125601:07:57.079 --> 01:08:01.719
a change, but a welcome revisit with her. So he125701:08:01.840 --> 01:08:03.320
had to call out that scene for sure.125801:08:03.400 --> 01:08:08.800
That was a must. Yeah. Okay, let's move on to125901:08:08.920 --> 01:08:12.239
our Swiss cheese and complaints apartment. And why don't we call.126001:08:12.199 --> 01:08:15.719
Swiss cheese because although this movie is delicious, it does126101:08:15.880 --> 01:08:17.319
have flag burning holes.126201:08:17.800 --> 01:08:20.000
Yes, and it doesn't have those flag burning holes. We126301:08:20.159 --> 01:08:23.079
just found a complaint with the complaints apartment. So Jason,126401:08:23.079 --> 01:08:23.439
what do you have?126501:08:23.640 --> 01:08:27.840
Yeah? I got a few complaints, one being that awesome126601:08:27.960 --> 01:08:31.039
scene at the prom when he just walks up to126701:08:31.880 --> 01:08:34.840
Donna and cuts in. I was like, dude, I appreciate126801:08:34.880 --> 01:08:37.359
what you're doing, but I felt bad for her. Date126901:08:37.600 --> 01:08:39.840
was his name, Todd? I think something like that. I127001:08:39.960 --> 01:08:41.840
think so he doesn't he barely gets in a word.127101:08:41.920 --> 01:08:43.560
I think he's like he says, maybe you hear it,127201:08:43.720 --> 01:08:46.399
like kind of offscreen, like whoa like looking at Ron127301:08:46.399 --> 01:08:49.039
because he's all wet from running through the rain. But man,127401:08:49.600 --> 01:08:51.720
you just butt in like that. Thought he could have127501:08:51.760 --> 01:08:53.520
been a little more polite in that moment.127601:08:54.920 --> 01:08:57.560
Yeah, a little tough for him. I just feel bad127701:08:57.640 --> 01:09:01.920
for him momentarily. It's just my big complaint. You know.127801:09:02.760 --> 01:09:04.560
We just have to remember that even though this movie127901:09:04.680 --> 01:09:08.079
is based on an autobiography, you know seems have to128001:09:08.159 --> 01:09:11.760
be enhanced for dramatic effect, So we know the overall128101:09:11.840 --> 01:09:15.399
story is basically true, but there's going to be elements128201:09:15.439 --> 01:09:19.039
that are written up to pull out our dramatic heart strings.128301:09:19.600 --> 01:09:21.119
Just remember that one watching.128401:09:20.880 --> 01:09:25.760
It, Okay, good point, good point. I found I love128501:09:25.840 --> 01:09:28.560
Frank Wally. I liked him in this a lot. He's128601:09:28.600 --> 01:09:31.520
always great. I didn't care for his wig in this one.128701:09:31.720 --> 01:09:34.640
It's a little distract His hair was a little distracting128801:09:34.720 --> 01:09:37.279
to me. And when he has his big scene with128901:09:37.560 --> 01:09:39.760
Ron when they're sitting out in the backyard on the129001:09:39.840 --> 01:09:43.399
beent and like sitting on the picnic table and talking129101:09:43.479 --> 01:09:47.720
about their buddies that they lost, and you have actually129201:09:47.760 --> 01:09:51.319
another great moment from Tom Cruise talking about why didn't129301:09:51.319 --> 01:09:53.039
I just stay down? Why did I feel like I129401:09:53.119 --> 01:09:54.800
had to get up and be a hero or change129501:09:54.880 --> 01:09:57.079
my life and I just could have stayed down. Whatever129601:09:57.680 --> 01:10:01.119
those lines were. Excuse me for paraphrasing. It looks like129701:10:01.479 --> 01:10:04.880
Timmy played by Frank Wally, has like there's a line129801:10:05.039 --> 01:10:07.640
across his forehead that's clear, and it doesn't look like129901:10:07.840 --> 01:10:10.319
just the wrinkles in his forehead like natural. I'm like,130001:10:10.560 --> 01:10:14.840
is that literally just just a bad makeup cover up130101:10:14.920 --> 01:10:18.920
where that's where his cap wig starts his wig cap.130201:10:19.439 --> 01:10:21.920
It was pretty obvious to me. Maybe it's just watching130301:10:21.960 --> 01:10:23.960
it in HD or whatever, but I was like, ooh,130401:10:24.439 --> 01:10:27.399
that's really distracting in this kind of emotional scene here.130501:10:28.720 --> 01:10:30.560
Yeah, I think I was more disturbed by some of130601:10:30.600 --> 01:10:33.640
the mustaches in this than the wigs. There. It got,130701:10:34.520 --> 01:10:36.720
but I think I know what happened with Frank. He130801:10:36.880 --> 01:10:39.520
was literally coming from another film. He was that's right,130901:10:39.880 --> 01:10:41.840
so that might have been it. They just kind of131001:10:41.920 --> 01:10:44.399
threw that on his head and go get to work.131101:10:44.479 --> 01:10:46.520
Pal, Did you have more on that in the trivia131201:10:46.600 --> 01:10:49.319
because I can mention it real quick here. I'll I131301:10:49.359 --> 01:10:52.119
don't want to butcher it, but no, go ahead. He131401:10:52.439 --> 01:10:55.279
literally was had gotten on a like a red eye131501:10:55.319 --> 01:10:57.479
flight or something like that. He had to fly right131601:10:57.560 --> 01:11:00.000
from one shoot to the next and had not memorize131701:11:00.279 --> 01:11:03.159
his lines for this scene. Yeah, it's a big scene,131801:11:03.600 --> 01:11:06.520
it is, and Olie Stone was not happy about it,131901:11:06.640 --> 01:11:10.600
supposedly what I read. But then Frank Waally was like,132001:11:10.720 --> 01:11:12.840
and I think either I think Tom Cruise took him132101:11:12.840 --> 01:11:16.039
aside and they just worked on it. Like four He's like,132201:11:16.079 --> 01:11:18.039
give me ten minutes, give me fifteen minutes. Whatever it was,132301:11:18.119 --> 01:11:21.319
they nailed it down together and he got it clearly then.132401:11:21.520 --> 01:11:23.479
And it says this very much so in the research132501:11:23.560 --> 01:11:27.439
that Oliver Stone clearly forgave him because he's used him132601:11:27.520 --> 01:11:30.399
then afterwards in the following films. So that was good132701:11:30.439 --> 01:11:30.640
to hear.132801:11:31.000 --> 01:11:31.239
Yeah.132901:11:31.479 --> 01:11:33.600
I was a little critical of some of that wig work,133001:11:33.640 --> 01:11:35.760
and yeah, I guess the mustache work too in this.133101:11:37.000 --> 01:11:39.479
Yeah, some of it was a little bit distracting. The133201:11:39.560 --> 01:11:42.199
only other thing I had was I just kind of133301:11:42.239 --> 01:11:44.720
wanted to know, like what happened to Timmy, what happened133401:11:44.760 --> 01:11:49.039
to Tommy, what happened to Donna? Especially Tommy because Ron's133501:11:49.199 --> 01:11:52.800
brother and he's anti war. Yeah, and they kind of133601:11:52.920 --> 01:11:54.920
have I don't want to say it falling out, but133701:11:55.399 --> 01:11:56.800
they do exchange words.133801:11:57.159 --> 01:12:01.079
Oh it's a significant scene. Yeah, so dies that go right?133901:12:01.399 --> 01:12:05.439
Did they think work things out? Or I felt like134001:12:05.479 --> 01:12:08.920
I was left hanging of him? Of the three I mentioned, you.134101:12:08.920 --> 01:12:11.720
Would really feel like there this is the kind of134201:12:11.760 --> 01:12:14.119
film that would have that epilogue with all of the134301:12:14.279 --> 01:12:18.920
text with describing what had happened to each of the134401:12:19.399 --> 01:12:22.960
main or major characters that were featured, Whether it be134501:12:23.079 --> 01:12:28.880
Willie from the VA Hospital or Timmy or Tommy or Donna. Yeah, absolutely,134601:12:29.199 --> 01:12:31.640
it would you really like this is the movie that's134701:12:31.680 --> 01:12:33.279
tailor made for that kind of thing, but we don't134801:12:33.319 --> 01:12:36.239
get it. Yeah, yeah, all right, that's all I got.134901:12:36.680 --> 01:12:40.000
Okay, let's move on to Hey, It's that actor. So135001:12:40.239 --> 01:12:43.079
this segment we spotlight a character actor you have seen135101:12:43.119 --> 01:12:46.279
in many other films, an actor making their big screen debut,135201:12:46.760 --> 01:12:49.880
or an actor that makes an uncredited cameo. Hey it's135301:12:49.920 --> 01:12:52.760
that actor, and who do we choose this week? And135401:12:53.640 --> 01:12:55.199
this could be one of those movies we could just135501:12:55.279 --> 01:12:56.399
do an episode.135601:12:56.039 --> 01:12:58.319
On Hey, yeah, who do you not choose?135701:12:58.720 --> 01:12:58.880
Yes?135801:12:59.359 --> 01:13:04.359
So this week our Hey It's that actor is R. D. Call.135901:13:04.640 --> 01:13:06.520
His name is r D the initials.136001:13:06.800 --> 01:13:07.159
R D.136101:13:07.760 --> 01:13:11.199
Call is his last name, and he portrays the chaplain136201:13:11.880 --> 01:13:14.319
in a brief sequence, a brief scene that happens in136301:13:14.399 --> 01:13:18.720
the triage tent right after the fight firefight in Vietnam136401:13:18.960 --> 01:13:23.800
where ron Kovic is shot and wounded. Our D Call136501:13:24.039 --> 01:13:26.840
is an American actor, maybe best known for his roles136601:13:26.880 --> 01:13:31.399
in films directed by Walter Hill. However, in this I136701:13:31.600 --> 01:13:35.319
recognized him right away and also really liked his brief136801:13:35.359 --> 01:13:38.479
scene it's quite jarring. It's almost ya, just really jarring,136901:13:38.520 --> 01:13:41.960
as he is extremely direct with ron Kovic but has137001:13:42.119 --> 01:13:46.119
this slight twinge of empathy under this high pressure circumstance137101:13:46.199 --> 01:13:50.119
in this triage tent where you have an injured ron Kovic.137201:13:50.199 --> 01:13:52.960
That's like, I need to be operated on because he137301:13:53.039 --> 01:13:57.600
knows he's been severely injured. And the chaplain RD Call says,137401:13:57.840 --> 01:13:59.479
the doctors are real busy right now. There's a lot137501:13:59.479 --> 01:14:01.800
of wounded here today, no time for anything except trying137601:14:01.840 --> 01:14:04.079
to stay alive. So you've got to try and stay alive. Okay,137701:14:04.520 --> 01:14:07.760
you hear me, try and stay alive. And then immediately137801:14:07.880 --> 01:14:10.880
afterwards says I've come to give you your last rites.137901:14:11.199 --> 01:14:16.199
Are you ready? It's like, oh my god, it's brutal. Yeah,138001:14:16.800 --> 01:14:20.640
so already calls trademarks of yeah, our tough guy rolls138101:14:20.840 --> 01:14:23.880
and his mustache. Funny enough, he has a pretty solid138201:14:24.000 --> 01:14:26.399
mustache in this I think that's actually his mustache, so138301:14:26.640 --> 01:14:29.640
looks good in this movie. His eighties Snapshot does a138401:14:30.720 --> 01:14:33.960
lot of TV series episode appearances and shows like Heart138501:14:34.000 --> 01:14:37.039
to Heart, Little House on the Prairie General Hospital. He's138601:14:37.199 --> 01:14:40.319
a duty sergeant in Forty eight Hours in eighty two,138701:14:40.680 --> 01:14:42.560
like was he in the precinct sequence that you broke?138801:14:42.640 --> 01:14:43.680
I don't remember him either.138901:14:43.960 --> 01:14:47.760
Yeah, he's an episode of the show V in nineteen139001:14:47.760 --> 01:14:51.239
eighty five. He's a courtroom guard in Brewster's Millions in139101:14:51.359 --> 01:14:54.960
eighty five. He plays the role Dickie in At Close139201:14:55.119 --> 01:14:58.720
Range in eighty six, then No Man's Land in nineteen139301:14:58.760 --> 01:15:00.720
eighty seven, which we have to do on this podcast.139401:15:00.760 --> 01:15:02.680
Bill Band got to do No Man's Land at some point.139501:15:03.159 --> 01:15:05.359
He's in Colors in eighty eight, the TV movie La139601:15:05.520 --> 01:15:08.039
Takedown in eighty nine, and then this Born in the139701:15:08.039 --> 01:15:10.920
Fourth of July and eighty nine. Other notables Young Guns two.139801:15:11.600 --> 01:15:14.960
My particular favorite performance of his and why I know139901:15:15.119 --> 01:15:17.560
him well is from the film State of Grace, where140001:15:17.600 --> 01:15:21.039
he plays character Nicholson. Awesome, very menacing. He's in other140101:15:21.079 --> 01:15:23.760
People's Money, waterworled, Last Man's Standing. Babbel Into the Wild,140201:15:23.840 --> 01:15:27.359
did a lot more TV and Artie Call did, unfortunately140301:15:27.399 --> 01:15:30.359
pass away in twenty twenty at the young age of seventy.140401:15:30.760 --> 01:15:33.760
Little trivia, he appeared in two films that were nominated140501:15:33.760 --> 01:15:35.640
for Best Picture, Oscar Born in the Fourth of July140601:15:35.840 --> 01:15:38.920
and Babel. Babbel was in two thousand and six. Both140701:15:38.960 --> 01:15:41.840
are winners of the Golden Globe Motion Picture in the140801:15:41.920 --> 01:15:45.479
category of Drama. He has worked with Sean Penn multiple140901:15:45.560 --> 01:15:48.760
times in At Close Range, Colors, Judgment in Berlin, State141001:15:48.800 --> 01:15:51.720
of Grace, I Am Sam, and Into the Wild So141101:15:52.039 --> 01:15:54.319
ARTI call is our Hey, it's that actor this week.141201:15:54.720 --> 01:15:57.079
That's definitely one of those I recognize him right away,141301:15:57.319 --> 01:16:00.359
but could not for the life of me. But yeah,141401:16:00.720 --> 01:16:03.760
he definitely defines the hands that actor. Okay, let's move141501:16:03.800 --> 01:16:06.479
on to facts and trivia. What are some facts of141601:16:06.520 --> 01:16:08.560
trivia we have about Born the fourth of July.141701:16:09.119 --> 01:16:13.600
The real ron Kovic gave Tom Cruise his Bronze Star141801:16:14.479 --> 01:16:15.920
for his performance in the movie.141901:16:16.439 --> 01:16:20.640
Nice, that's that's like, that's huge. Yeah, that's a big deal.142001:16:20.880 --> 01:16:22.800
So now I've like, if I met Tom Cruise, like142101:16:23.000 --> 01:16:24.800
right now today, I'd be like, where do you keep142201:16:24.840 --> 01:16:25.439
the bronze Star?142301:16:26.199 --> 01:16:28.279
Yeah, that'd be a good question. All right, We've been142401:16:28.319 --> 01:16:31.840
talking about the cast and crew and all that, But yes,142501:16:31.960 --> 01:16:35.960
including cameos by Oliver Stone, there are at least eleven142601:16:36.279 --> 01:16:40.159
other actors credited in this film that also appeared in142701:16:40.359 --> 01:16:44.279
Oliver Stone's earlier Vietnam War film Platoon. Some of the142801:16:44.359 --> 01:16:48.640
highlights include Tom Barringer, who was gunnery Sergeant Hayes. We142901:16:48.760 --> 01:16:52.439
also mentioned Willem Dafoe, who is Charlie John C McGinley143001:16:52.880 --> 01:16:56.399
who was the official pushing Kovac's wheelchair at the end,143101:16:56.680 --> 01:17:00.479
and Mark Moses, who was the doctor at the VA143201:17:00.640 --> 01:17:04.640
hospital who ends up rebuilding that device to help Cruz143301:17:04.880 --> 01:17:09.000
save his leg. Allow carry over from Platoon for sure,143401:17:09.119 --> 01:17:11.640
Mark Moses, Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, it's.143501:17:11.479 --> 01:17:14.359
Funny because I see him, I recognize he easily could143601:17:14.359 --> 01:17:17.119
have been a Hey, it's that actor. Yes, there's just143701:17:17.199 --> 01:17:20.760
another one man. Producer Martin Bregman acquired the film rights143801:17:20.760 --> 01:17:23.199
to the book in nineteen seventy six and hired Stone,143901:17:23.640 --> 01:17:27.239
also a Vietnam vetteran, to co write the screenplay with Kovic,144001:17:27.279 --> 01:17:32.680
who would be played by Al Pacino. When Stone optioned144101:17:32.680 --> 01:17:34.880
the book in nineteen seventy eight, the film adaptation became144201:17:35.000 --> 01:17:37.800
mired and developed in Hell after Paccino and Bregman left,144301:17:37.920 --> 01:17:40.680
which resulted in him and Kovic putting the film on hold.144401:17:40.960 --> 01:17:44.119
After the release of Platoon, the project was revived at144501:17:44.239 --> 01:17:47.319
Universal Pictures with Stone attached to direct, and it was144601:17:47.319 --> 01:17:51.640
shot on locations in the Philippines. Texas and Inglewood, California.144701:17:51.760 --> 01:17:54.680
Principal photography took place from October to December in nineteen144801:17:54.680 --> 01:17:57.840
eighty eight, lasting sixty five days of filming.144901:17:58.119 --> 01:18:01.399
All Right This Speaker at the Universe cea Syracuse protest145001:18:01.680 --> 01:18:05.800
is played by iconic Sixties activist Abby Hoffman, who co145101:18:05.960 --> 01:18:10.159
founded the Youth International Party Hippies and was a member145201:18:10.319 --> 01:18:15.039
of the Chicago Seven. The Chicago Seven was charged with145301:18:15.720 --> 01:18:20.119
and tried for activities during the nineteen sixty eight Democratic145401:18:20.279 --> 01:18:24.640
National Convention for conspiracy to use interstate commerce with intent145501:18:24.760 --> 01:18:28.039
to incite a riot and crossing state lines with the145601:18:28.119 --> 01:18:31.960
intent to incite a riot under the Anti Riot provision145701:18:32.119 --> 01:18:35.720
of Title X of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen145801:18:35.960 --> 01:18:40.000
sixty eight. The twenty twenty Iron Sorkin film The Trial145901:18:40.159 --> 01:18:44.079
of the Chicago Seven, which was dridded by Netflix, covers146001:18:44.399 --> 01:18:47.359
that incident. By the time Born on the fourth of146101:18:47.520 --> 01:18:51.439
July was released, Abby had unfortunately taken his own life.146201:18:51.600 --> 01:18:54.640
The film is dedicated to him in the closing credits.146301:18:55.159 --> 01:18:59.119
Yeah. Tom Cruise spent one year preparing for the role.146401:18:59.239 --> 01:19:02.319
He visited seven veterans hospitals, read various books on the146501:19:02.399 --> 01:19:06.119
Vietnam waren practiced riding in a wheelchair. At one point146601:19:06.239 --> 01:19:10.359
during pre production, Oliver Stone suggested that Cruise be injected146701:19:10.439 --> 01:19:13.840
with a chemical drug that would render him paralyzed for146801:19:14.000 --> 01:19:17.159
two days. Stone believed that the drug would help him146901:19:17.199 --> 01:19:21.520
realistically portray the difficulties of being a paraplegic. The insurance147001:19:21.600 --> 01:19:25.840
company responsible for the film vetoed the idea, believing that147101:19:25.960 --> 01:19:30.159
the drug would cause permanent incapacitation. That one I just147201:19:30.279 --> 01:19:33.000
love reading about because it's like, not only does Oliver147301:19:33.079 --> 01:19:35.319
Stone go all the way, but Cruse does too. And147401:19:35.439 --> 01:19:37.119
I had read a little bit more about that where147501:19:37.760 --> 01:19:40.720
Cruise seemed actually on board with it for a bit, yes,147601:19:40.720 --> 01:19:42.680
and it all gets vew ot. It's like, oh my god,147701:19:42.760 --> 01:19:45.239
you guys, what are we doing here? That's insane?147801:19:45.479 --> 01:19:49.279
Yep. So another possible haydside actor would have been character147901:19:49.439 --> 01:19:52.720
actor Bob Gutten, who might be best known as the148001:19:52.760 --> 01:19:56.079
warden in The Shawshak Retemption. In this movie, he plays148101:19:56.119 --> 01:19:59.760
the doctor tells Ron about his paralysis. Bob was an148201:19:59.800 --> 01:20:03.000
act real veteran of the Vietnam War, having served in148301:20:03.039 --> 01:20:06.159
the US Army and earned a Bronze Star for his service.148401:20:06.760 --> 01:20:11.199
Cool all right. The entire film was shot in shades148501:20:11.239 --> 01:20:13.920
of red, white, or blue, depending on the emotional level.148601:20:14.119 --> 01:20:17.159
Battle scenes are all in reddish shoes, dream sequences in white,148701:20:17.479 --> 01:20:20.560
sadness and blue, et cetera. See that's smart stuff. I148801:20:21.359 --> 01:20:23.159
didn't even pick up on that. It's kind of on148901:20:23.279 --> 01:20:25.239
a subconscious I know it's.149001:20:24.960 --> 01:20:27.520
Terrible because it's so obvious after you read that, and149101:20:27.560 --> 01:20:29.039
you're like, why was there not seeing that when I149201:20:29.079 --> 01:20:29.720
was watching the movie.149301:20:29.760 --> 01:20:32.000
I know. I'm just like, it's right there. Am I149401:20:32.199 --> 01:20:36.920
even really a fan of film? That's when you go,149501:20:37.119 --> 01:20:38.239
I'm questioning my own.149601:20:38.560 --> 01:20:40.439
Hopefully you don't have this one, because you've been praising149701:20:40.520 --> 01:20:43.600
these two throughout the whole movie. So, Raymond J. Barry149801:20:43.720 --> 01:20:47.279
and Caroline Kava, who play mister and Missus Kovak, parents149901:20:47.359 --> 01:20:51.479
to Ronkovec, previously appeared together and You're the Dragon, a150001:20:51.600 --> 01:20:54.920
movie which was co written by Oliver Stone. In that movie,150101:20:55.199 --> 01:20:58.760
it's Raymond J. Barry who plays a Vietnam veteran.150201:20:59.119 --> 01:21:02.520
Ah, there you go. I didn't have that, but I150301:21:02.680 --> 01:21:04.640
did come across it. But I'm glad you mentioned it.150401:21:05.399 --> 01:21:08.119
So yeah, on prom night in the movie, Yes, Ronnie's Father,150501:21:08.199 --> 01:21:11.800
we talked about this. Ronnie's father laments that Vietnam is150601:21:11.800 --> 01:21:13.279
a long way to go to fight a war. Since150701:21:13.680 --> 01:21:18.720
Hanoi is twelve time zones away from Massapequa, it is150801:21:19.159 --> 01:21:22.199
literally the other side of the globe, making it the150901:21:22.359 --> 01:21:23.880
absolute farthest.151001:21:23.560 --> 01:21:27.000
You could go crazy. I remember when I went to151101:21:27.079 --> 01:21:30.640
Hong Kong and realizing, yeah, I was twelve hours away151201:21:30.920 --> 01:21:33.399
from home, and how to keep going. Oh, yeah, it's151301:21:33.439 --> 01:21:36.640
just I'm am there PM or vice versa. So weird.151401:21:37.079 --> 01:21:38.840
I don't know if I knew you went to Hong Kong.151501:21:38.960 --> 01:21:39.359
When was that?151601:21:39.840 --> 01:21:41.720
Well, it was with the dolphins, so it was two151701:21:41.840 --> 01:21:48.680
zoundands four mentioned it then yeah, yeah for Chinese New151801:21:48.760 --> 01:21:51.920
Year's Wow, it was an interesting trip, I would imagine.151901:21:52.600 --> 01:21:56.640
Twenty seven, David Brenner, not the comedian, was the youngest152001:21:56.680 --> 01:22:00.359
person to win the Academy Award for Best Film Editing.152101:22:00.680 --> 01:22:03.720
He was also the youngest to be nominated, tied with152201:22:04.039 --> 01:22:08.199
Robert Wise for Citizen Kane back in nineteen forty one.152301:22:08.840 --> 01:22:11.880
Nice Love It, This is the last one I Got.152401:22:12.279 --> 01:22:18.479
The film was cinematographer Robert Richardson's fifth collaboration with Stone,152501:22:18.600 --> 01:22:21.760
and their first to be shot in the anamorphic format.152601:22:22.600 --> 01:22:26.439
Richardson shot the film using panavision cameras and lesdism primarily152701:22:26.720 --> 01:22:31.399
utilized thirty five millimeter film stocks. Sixteen millimeter and super152801:22:31.520 --> 01:22:34.079
sixteen millimeter stocks were also used to film the scene152901:22:34.119 --> 01:22:38.279
of COVID demonstrating at the nineteen seventy two Republican National Convention,153001:22:38.800 --> 01:22:41.680
blended with archive footage of the actual event.153101:22:42.159 --> 01:22:45.039
Okay, let's move on to box office. So Born the153201:22:45.039 --> 01:22:48.359
Fourth of July was released on December twentieth, nineteen eighty nine,153301:22:48.479 --> 01:22:52.560
and four theaters. An estimated budget of fourteen million dollars,153401:22:52.760 --> 01:22:55.880
it would grow seventy million dollars domestically. Born in the153501:22:55.880 --> 01:22:58.960
Fourth of July would go into wide release on January fifth,153601:22:59.119 --> 01:23:01.760
nineteen ninety It would be the number one movie for153701:23:01.960 --> 01:23:05.359
three weeks straight. It drop to number two the following153801:23:05.439 --> 01:23:08.199
week thanks to Driving Miss Daisy, but would stay in153901:23:08.239 --> 01:23:11.279
the top ten for another eight weeks. Born the Fourth154001:23:11.319 --> 01:23:15.319
of July would be the seventeenth highest grossing movie released154101:23:15.399 --> 01:23:19.079
in nineteen eighty nine, behind one of my all time154201:23:19.199 --> 01:23:21.479
favorite movies, Turner and Hooch.154301:23:23.359 --> 01:23:23.680
Nice.154401:23:24.760 --> 01:23:27.720
We're moving on to reviews. When growing up in the eighties,154501:23:27.760 --> 01:23:29.920
we'd watch at the movies with Geene Siskel and Roger154601:23:30.000 --> 01:23:33.520
Ebert to hear their reviews and watch clips of upcoming movies.154701:23:33.960 --> 01:23:37.119
Their review of Born the fourth of July was unanimous154801:23:37.479 --> 01:23:41.319
two thumbs up. Roger called it a great film with154901:23:41.520 --> 01:23:46.399
a great performance. Gene credited Stone for courageously showing what155001:23:46.600 --> 01:23:49.319
vets had to go through when seriously wounded in war,155101:23:49.640 --> 01:23:52.800
the after effects, the damage a bullet could do to155201:23:52.960 --> 01:23:58.079
one's body. It may make people uneasy, but it's memorable155301:23:58.840 --> 01:24:01.880
Rotten Tomatoes because it to Memeter score of eighty four155401:24:01.960 --> 01:24:06.159
percent with a Popcorn Meter score of seventy six percent.155501:24:06.359 --> 01:24:09.840
It also has an IMDb rating of seven point two.155601:24:10.399 --> 01:24:13.520
So this takes us to additional thoughts and questions, or155701:24:13.640 --> 01:24:15.720
some additional thoughts and questions you have about Born the155801:24:15.760 --> 01:24:16.239
fourth of July.155901:24:16.680 --> 01:24:20.840
Well, here's an additional thought. The word fuck is used156001:24:20.920 --> 01:24:23.760
two hundred and eighty nine times throughout the film.156101:24:24.680 --> 01:24:27.439
There you go. I had that same thing written down156201:24:27.520 --> 01:24:32.239
to do not play the fuck drinking game in this movie,156301:24:32.439 --> 01:24:34.760
or you'll be dead by the second reel.156401:24:34.760 --> 01:24:36.720
You know. And that's it's great that you admitted that156501:24:36.920 --> 01:24:40.760
to me or just told me that, because I meant156601:24:40.800 --> 01:24:43.720
to actually ask you as like a trivia question do156701:24:43.760 --> 01:24:46.720
you have like over or over under two hundred and156801:24:46.800 --> 01:24:48.840
fifty times? What do you you know? How many times156901:24:48.840 --> 01:24:50.479
do you think the word fuck was used in the movie?157001:24:50.720 --> 01:24:52.840
But you already knew, so I.157101:24:53.079 --> 01:24:54.880
Probably would have said under, I didn't realize it was157201:24:54.960 --> 01:24:57.439
used that much. Yeah, right, So this is interesting. Tom157301:24:57.520 --> 01:25:01.279
Cruise's actual birthday is July third, stay often being born157401:25:01.319 --> 01:25:02.000
on the fourt of July.157501:25:02.439 --> 01:25:05.880
Here's a question, yes, and I'm looking for your opinion.157601:25:06.000 --> 01:25:09.600
Does it feel like this Tom Cruise movie is the157701:25:09.800 --> 01:25:13.800
least talked about of Tom Cruise movies, like as far157801:25:13.880 --> 01:25:16.880
as just popular culture over time when you think of157901:25:16.960 --> 01:25:19.800
Tom Cruise and you get into discussions of his films.158001:25:20.640 --> 01:25:24.880
He is nominated for Best Actor in this movie and158101:25:25.720 --> 01:25:30.199
working with Oliver Stone, et cetera. But I just, yeah,158201:25:30.600 --> 01:25:31.840
I don't know. I have my opinion.158301:25:32.399 --> 01:25:35.880
This was interesting because of course, you know, when you're158401:25:35.920 --> 01:25:38.960
trying to do the research for this movie, you try158501:25:39.000 --> 01:25:42.239
to find articles or whatnot. And there was an article158601:25:42.840 --> 01:25:45.720
that ranked and I can't remember who wrote it, so158701:25:45.960 --> 01:25:51.319
I apologize that ranked Tom Cruise's forty five movies that158801:25:51.680 --> 01:25:54.720
he's had up to this point. And they had born158901:25:54.760 --> 01:25:57.520
with the sports of July. Is this top film? Wow,159001:25:57.920 --> 01:25:59.760
that's awesome. I was like, Oh, that might be in159101:25:59.760 --> 01:26:02.560
the time ten. But I think you're right. This is159201:26:02.640 --> 01:26:06.560
a movie of his that is not talked a lot159301:26:06.680 --> 01:26:11.920
about because as I've met, he's considered a movie star,159401:26:12.720 --> 01:26:15.600
and this is not a movie star type movie.159501:26:15.880 --> 01:26:19.640
It just feels like in it, like your typical nerdy159601:26:19.880 --> 01:26:24.840
round table at the dinner table discussion among film fans,159701:26:24.960 --> 01:26:26.720
this just doesn't come up that often.159801:26:27.159 --> 01:26:30.600
This isn't a movie I'm gonna pop in. It's one159901:26:30.600 --> 01:26:32.680
of those good it's a it's a good movie, but160001:26:32.760 --> 01:26:35.840
I'm not going to watch it, Like, oh what am160101:26:35.840 --> 01:26:36.920
I in the mood for? Let me watch?160201:26:38.279 --> 01:26:41.279
Yeah, that's true. That's a great point because usually you actually,160301:26:41.319 --> 01:26:44.760
when you are with your film buddies having the roundtable discussion,160401:26:44.840 --> 01:26:47.720
you're talking about your your favorite moments and scenes and160501:26:47.800 --> 01:26:49.680
actors from movies, and you're not going to be like, oh,160601:26:49.800 --> 01:26:52.119
you remember that one scene from borderin Forest of July160701:26:52.359 --> 01:26:55.239
that was just awesome. You know, it's not typically going160801:26:55.279 --> 01:26:55.640
to come up.160901:26:56.239 --> 01:26:59.199
No, you recommend it, you watch it the one time,161001:26:59.319 --> 01:27:02.600
and if you come across it again, yeah, I own it.161101:27:02.640 --> 01:27:04.000
And the only reason I own it is because of161201:27:04.039 --> 01:27:07.680
this podcast. If I'm buying Tom Cruise movies, this would161301:27:07.680 --> 01:27:09.319
be in the bottom of the list. But if you161401:27:09.399 --> 01:27:11.640
knew nothing about Tom Cruise and you want to recommend161501:27:11.680 --> 01:27:14.239
some of his movies, this should be one of the recommendations.161601:27:14.640 --> 01:27:18.880
Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree, totally agree on all counts.161701:27:19.399 --> 01:27:21.920
Since we're speaking of Tom Cruise movies, Jason, do you161801:27:22.079 --> 01:27:25.119
have a go to Tom Cruise movie. That's a great question,161901:27:25.279 --> 01:27:29.840
And as of late, I've been popping in Mission Impossible162001:27:30.000 --> 01:27:34.680
Fallout because I think that is an incredible movie all around.162101:27:35.239 --> 01:27:39.239
It's just an absolute blast, stunt work, action, everything. So162201:27:40.119 --> 01:27:44.359
that to go to Fallout and Maverick both our go162301:27:44.479 --> 01:27:48.399
to is from his earlier days. I do love the162401:27:48.479 --> 01:27:50.960
Color of Money. I'm so glad we did that on162501:27:51.079 --> 01:27:54.159
our podcast. Yeah, yeah, that is a good one, you162601:27:54.239 --> 01:27:56.920
know what, honestly, and I know I'm just naming a162701:27:57.000 --> 01:27:59.239
lot of Tom Cruise movies, But there was a time162801:27:59.319 --> 01:28:02.359
when I watch I had Like rain Man on repeat162901:28:02.439 --> 01:28:05.239
watch when that was on Cable. I watched that a lot.163001:28:06.159 --> 01:28:08.880
I really like Tom Cruise in that movie. I always163101:28:09.119 --> 01:28:11.159
shout out his performance in that because it was a163201:28:11.680 --> 01:28:14.680
he was kind of playing opposite his typical hero ro163301:28:15.319 --> 01:28:16.319
hero role.163401:28:16.840 --> 01:28:19.840
Yeah, that's an interesting one to go back and rewatch163501:28:19.960 --> 01:28:22.840
for me, because again, that was you know, pre pree163601:28:22.960 --> 01:28:25.800
Days of Thunder, So it's it's been a while for163701:28:25.880 --> 01:28:27.399
me to go back to some of those early ones163801:28:27.439 --> 01:28:31.239
and start rewatching them and see like with a different eye, Like, no,163901:28:31.399 --> 01:28:33.039
I actually like Cruise, So I'm.164001:28:32.920 --> 01:28:34.920
Glad, So glad that's the second time you brought up164101:28:35.000 --> 01:28:37.119
Days of Thunder because that, for me is used to164201:28:37.159 --> 01:28:39.479
be a rewatched like just I watch it all the164301:28:39.520 --> 01:28:43.399
time because that's literally brainless actions, just top gun with cars,164401:28:43.479 --> 01:28:46.119
So I watched that all the time. But yeah, recently164501:28:47.000 --> 01:28:50.079
then Fallout Maverick, Okay, what about you.164601:28:50.560 --> 01:28:53.000
I've definitely been watching a lot of Maverick. I'll have164701:28:53.079 --> 01:28:55.960
it on the background sometimes when i'm editing episodes so164801:28:56.079 --> 01:28:59.640
I can watch something. I'll try to put on something164901:28:59.680 --> 01:29:01.479
that I haven't seen in a while while i'm editing.165001:29:01.560 --> 01:29:03.479
But then next thing you know, I'm watching the movie165101:29:03.520 --> 01:29:06.880
and not editing. Whereas Maverick, I've watched it enough where165201:29:07.159 --> 01:29:09.359
I'm just like, oh, okay, visually I can just kind165301:29:09.399 --> 01:29:11.640
of know what's going on and not feel like I165401:29:11.760 --> 01:29:15.600
have to stop and watch this scene. It's great, but165501:29:15.960 --> 01:29:18.279
I'm trying to like from what I own, I do165601:29:18.399 --> 01:29:22.000
have all the mission impossible movies. Risky Business is always165701:29:22.039 --> 01:29:23.520
kind of fun to go back to every once in165801:29:23.560 --> 01:29:26.880
a while, and then I can't remember because I keep165901:29:26.960 --> 01:29:29.319
changing the goddamn title, the one what he keeps going166001:29:29.359 --> 01:29:29.840
back in time?166101:29:30.319 --> 01:29:33.039
Oh God, that's a great one that I always Yeah,166201:29:33.159 --> 01:29:35.560
that should be a go to of mine. I remember166301:29:35.640 --> 01:29:39.000
seeing that screening, yeah, which was a ton of fun,166401:29:39.479 --> 01:29:41.520
and he was there, which was really cool. Yeah, what166501:29:41.640 --> 01:29:45.840
a surprise. Edge of Tomorrow. It been kind of rebranded166601:29:46.039 --> 01:29:47.960
as Lived Repeat.166701:29:48.159 --> 01:29:50.600
Right, That's what confuses me. I'm like, yeah, most people166801:29:50.680 --> 01:29:53.520
might know is now Lived Repeat, but it's like, no,166901:29:53.640 --> 01:29:55.920
that's not what it was originally called. So yeah, to Tomorrow.167001:29:56.560 --> 01:29:58.279
That's another fun one of like going back.167101:29:58.119 --> 01:30:00.000
To Absolutely that's a great movie.167201:30:01.239 --> 01:30:01.840
Anything else?167301:30:02.199 --> 01:30:04.920
I got two more? This one could be a little167401:30:05.000 --> 01:30:11.760
controversial hot take opinion. But do you feel because this167501:30:11.920 --> 01:30:15.800
and I say this with no judgment whatsoever, It's just167601:30:15.920 --> 01:30:20.239
do you feel ron Kovik needed to or should have167701:30:20.479 --> 01:30:24.600
confessed what he had done to Wilson's parents and family?167801:30:25.239 --> 01:30:28.399
For him, he needed to. It's like a huge weight167901:30:28.479 --> 01:30:30.920
off his chest. I mean, he tried to report it,168001:30:31.359 --> 01:30:35.520
it didn't go over well. Who knows what his parents168101:30:35.760 --> 01:30:40.720
were told. Yeah, immediately makes me think of I can't168201:30:40.720 --> 01:30:42.680
believe I'm blanket on the player, the football player that168301:30:42.760 --> 01:30:43.600
went into.168401:30:44.079 --> 01:30:48.880
That was that was killed. Yes, in friendly fire? Correct?168501:30:49.359 --> 01:30:50.840
Pat correct? Tim?168601:30:51.359 --> 01:30:54.079
Pat Tillman, Yeah, Pat Tillman. You know the amazing story168701:30:54.119 --> 01:30:56.239
that he leaves football in order to go serve and168801:30:56.359 --> 01:30:58.479
then he gets killed and they made it sound like,168901:30:58.640 --> 01:31:00.199
you know, he got killed by the enemy, and then169001:31:00.199 --> 01:31:02.520
it comes out that it was friendly fire and just169101:31:02.960 --> 01:31:05.439
all the controversy that came with that that, I mean,169201:31:05.520 --> 01:31:07.720
that's what was running through my mind when I was169301:31:07.760 --> 01:31:11.560
thinking of all this throughout the movie. So part of169401:31:11.600 --> 01:31:15.560
me almost felt like it's good that his family knew169501:31:16.399 --> 01:31:18.920
what happened for real, right, Yeah.169601:31:19.520 --> 01:31:22.800
And that's I believe the conclusion I am coming to169701:31:22.960 --> 01:31:27.600
as well. It's one of those things when you feel169801:31:27.680 --> 01:31:31.520
that heavyweight, the cinder blocks that you're carrying in the169901:31:31.560 --> 01:31:35.159
bag on your back, the burden of this guilt and170001:31:35.439 --> 01:31:38.720
shame that is eating you away from the inside, and170101:31:38.800 --> 01:31:43.079
you feel as though you need to tell the person170201:31:43.239 --> 01:31:46.960
or people that you have wronged in a way the truth,170301:31:47.520 --> 01:31:52.399
and sometimes it can be for selfish purposes just to170401:31:52.479 --> 01:31:55.279
relieve yourself with that guilt where it may actually do170501:31:55.399 --> 01:31:58.960
the other person more harm than good, so that you170601:31:59.039 --> 01:32:01.640
know where the because it's I think this scene is170701:32:01.760 --> 01:32:04.880
well like, well filmed, well acted, well played out and170801:32:05.279 --> 01:32:07.680
well written in the way that you do have And170901:32:07.880 --> 01:32:10.039
I don't know, I'm sure assuming a lot of it171001:32:10.159 --> 01:32:13.359
is true to what actually happened in the book, etc.171101:32:13.800 --> 01:32:16.800
In ron Kovic's life, but when the father says we171201:32:16.880 --> 01:32:20.359
don't have to hear this is one of those things.171301:32:20.439 --> 01:32:22.960
It's like yeah, And that was the thing I kept171401:32:23.079 --> 01:32:26.479
trying to put myself in the parent shoes, like, Okay,171501:32:26.520 --> 01:32:30.359
if I'm in that situation, could I forgive ron.171601:32:31.640 --> 01:32:34.079
Or how sure?171701:32:34.640 --> 01:32:38.399
I think I would be upset hearing it, but understanding171801:32:38.800 --> 01:32:42.880
how combat is. I don't think I would go rotten, hell,171901:32:42.960 --> 01:32:45.960
you son of a bitch? Right. It would be hurtful,172001:32:46.039 --> 01:32:48.359
but I think I would be understanding. I think my172101:32:48.560 --> 01:32:52.239
child would still be lost regardless, but I think knowing172201:32:52.319 --> 01:32:55.039
the truth at that moment it would be really hard,172301:32:55.640 --> 01:32:58.479
but I think over time, I think I would feel172401:32:58.560 --> 01:33:00.680
better knowing what have happen.172501:33:00.640 --> 01:33:04.039
And so that's where I'm coming out on as far172601:33:04.119 --> 01:33:08.720
as Ron doing it not for to unburden himself or172701:33:08.800 --> 01:33:12.720
for selfish reasons, but to the ideas it's in the172801:33:12.800 --> 01:33:17.000
spirit of truth and honesty, correct, So feeling that this172901:33:17.159 --> 01:33:22.199
family deserves the truth, they deserve to know what really happened,173001:33:22.640 --> 01:33:25.199
and then we'll have to come to peace with that173101:33:25.359 --> 01:33:29.600
on their own terms. But yeah, it's just such a173201:33:29.840 --> 01:33:35.239
tricky thing to deal with when so so tragic, traumatic173301:33:35.319 --> 01:33:38.560
and personal. So yeah, I just want to discuss that173401:33:38.760 --> 01:33:42.800
real quick. And then I have one more one more question. Okay,173501:33:43.239 --> 01:33:47.079
all right, best movies or best movie moments or I173601:33:47.119 --> 01:33:49.199
should say, I don't know how to phrase this, but173701:33:49.439 --> 01:33:53.840
feature let's just best movies featuring Independence Day or Independence173801:33:53.960 --> 01:33:57.560
Day scenes slash moments. I'll go over it list and173901:33:57.800 --> 01:34:00.760
give credit to a little short video on IMDb which174001:34:00.800 --> 01:34:03.600
follows the trailer for Born the fourth of July. If174101:34:03.640 --> 01:34:06.159
you go to the page you can watch it. We174201:34:06.319 --> 01:34:09.239
have and they do it in chronological order, which is174301:34:09.279 --> 01:34:12.159
great as if as in the dates that happen within174401:34:12.239 --> 01:34:15.279
the fiction of the film. So it starts with back174501:34:15.319 --> 01:34:18.680
to the Future. Three July fourth is the day when174601:34:18.840 --> 01:34:21.279
Emmett learns it's the you know, they're in the Old174701:34:21.319 --> 01:34:25.640
West in that one, and Emmett learns Christopher Lloyd learns174801:34:25.680 --> 01:34:29.079
that he can't hold his whiskey. That happens on fourth174901:34:29.119 --> 01:34:33.239
of July. It's kind of funny then, as the timeline175001:34:33.319 --> 01:34:36.239
goes on in actual history, but within the fiction of175101:34:36.279 --> 01:34:41.119
these films, it's Captain America's birthday. Okay, So in Captain America,175201:34:41.239 --> 01:34:44.439
the first avenger, uh, you see that at July fourth175301:34:44.560 --> 01:34:48.640
is his birthday. Then the shining the picture at the175401:34:48.880 --> 01:34:53.560
very end, which establishes supposedly that Jack has been there175501:34:53.680 --> 01:34:57.520
all along, right, is dated July fourth.175601:34:57.880 --> 01:34:59.239
Oh, okay, we have.175701:35:00.960 --> 01:35:01.920
Go ahead. What were you gonna say?175801:35:02.199 --> 01:35:03.760
You know what, if I was quizzed on that, I175901:35:03.760 --> 01:35:04.680
would have said it was New.176001:35:04.680 --> 01:35:07.399
Years Okay, yeah, I thought it was New Year's too,176101:35:07.600 --> 01:35:09.920
So now yeah, I gotta go back and look at that,176201:35:10.039 --> 01:35:12.039
all right, Yes, you're right. Hmm.176301:35:12.880 --> 01:35:15.239
Well you said if IMDb did it, they would.176401:35:15.199 --> 01:35:19.319
Yeah, we may have to. That's that's my question than176501:35:19.479 --> 01:35:21.680
to ask people, was I now that you say that? Okay?176601:35:21.800 --> 01:35:23.800
So take it or leave it? On that one? That176701:35:23.920 --> 01:35:28.359
yellow effect right right right, totally Sandlot summer sixty two,176801:35:28.560 --> 01:35:31.439
they have their one night game. Now here's where I176901:35:31.560 --> 01:35:33.439
have a feeling your vote might lie.177001:35:33.640 --> 01:35:34.600
I know what're you going to say?177101:35:34.640 --> 01:35:39.720
Now, Jaws? That's right, yeah, the attack, it happens right177201:35:39.760 --> 01:35:45.319
off the beach. There. Independence Day. Not a good idea, Mayor.177301:35:45.520 --> 01:35:45.880
What was this?177401:35:46.000 --> 01:35:46.840
What's the starter's name?177501:35:47.840 --> 01:35:48.960
Mayor Vaughan? There you go.177601:35:49.439 --> 01:35:53.560
Then we get Forrest Gump. Forrest Gump proposes on Independence177701:35:53.600 --> 01:35:55.920
Day in the movie. We get Flight of the Navigator177801:35:56.039 --> 01:35:58.880
with the young boy David Freeman, who goes missing. He177901:35:59.159 --> 01:36:03.199
takes off, and then nah. Maybe most famously, the US178001:36:03.399 --> 01:36:06.920
is attacked by aliens on Independence Day in the movie178101:36:07.199 --> 01:36:09.279
Independence Day, and as a result we get the famous178201:36:09.319 --> 01:36:13.840
Bill Pullman presidential speech. So any favorites or do you178301:36:13.920 --> 01:36:18.279
have a choice of a favorite Independence Day scene, moment, situation?178401:36:18.880 --> 01:36:21.880
Right away, you think Independence Day because of the name178501:36:21.920 --> 01:36:24.079
of the film, right, I mean it is a fun,178601:36:24.239 --> 01:36:27.319
cheeseball film. I mean you were a part of it,178701:36:27.640 --> 01:36:28.239
so you know that.178801:36:30.239 --> 01:36:33.760
Technically I was never seen on screen.178901:36:34.279 --> 01:36:36.680
But if Jaws is one of the choices, I gotta179001:36:36.720 --> 01:36:37.319
go with Jaws.179101:36:37.600 --> 01:36:39.720
There you go. I think back to the future ones179201:36:39.760 --> 01:36:43.359
are kind of funny but yeah, I'm choosing Jaws as well. Okay,179301:36:43.640 --> 01:36:44.479
that's all I got.179401:36:44.800 --> 01:36:46.880
All right, let's move on to our ratings. So on179501:36:47.279 --> 01:36:50.119
a scale of one to five protests, what do you179601:36:50.239 --> 01:36:52.000
give Born on the fourth of July.179701:36:52.560 --> 01:36:56.960
I'm giving it four solid protests, with the right to reserve,179801:36:57.560 --> 01:37:00.520
changing my review to four point five. Right now, I'm179901:37:00.600 --> 01:37:03.319
still digesting, I suppose, and so I'm going to go180001:37:03.439 --> 01:37:08.520
with four protests. It's Cruise, It's Stone, It's Bob Richardson,180101:37:08.800 --> 01:37:14.119
It's John Williams. It's great filmmaking. It's extremely moving, heartbreaking, upsetting,180201:37:14.640 --> 01:37:17.399
makes you think, makes you feel a little dirty, does180301:37:17.520 --> 01:37:20.880
make me question some things. It accomplishes a lot. I180401:37:21.359 --> 01:37:26.199
did have some story development issues, but I think they180501:37:26.279 --> 01:37:28.800
may have been cleared up by our discussion Bill Bant180601:37:28.880 --> 01:37:32.640
and I could have Yeah, maybe use a little more development.180701:37:32.720 --> 01:37:36.000
But Cruise is amazing in this It's very much worth180801:37:36.119 --> 01:37:40.039
watching today. We'll always need more movies with directors that180901:37:40.199 --> 01:37:43.760
have an opinion, even though it might be controversial. I181001:37:43.880 --> 01:37:47.560
love directors that direct and write, write our director and181101:37:47.680 --> 01:37:50.319
have a point of view, provide different perspective that makes181201:37:50.359 --> 01:37:52.920
you think. This film makes me think a lot more181301:37:52.960 --> 01:37:56.880
deeply about that time in our history and the war itself.181401:37:57.359 --> 01:38:01.800
So it's a very impactful film, very emotion and that's181501:38:01.880 --> 01:38:03.239
it for protests for me.181601:38:03.960 --> 01:38:06.319
What say you, Bill Ban I'm right there with you.181701:38:06.399 --> 01:38:09.239
I have Ford protests myself. This is a movie where181801:38:09.279 --> 01:38:11.960
we see Tom Cruise, the actor, so you certainly should181901:38:12.000 --> 01:38:14.680
watch it for his performance. It's very well done this182001:38:14.800 --> 01:38:20.319
subject matter. Yes, it's very controversial and really makes you think,182101:38:21.279 --> 01:38:26.279
and it does make you think when situations like this occur,182201:38:26.760 --> 01:38:29.239
you got to find the facts and make your own opinion.182301:38:29.680 --> 01:38:32.680
It is a movie that's difficult to watch. I totally182401:38:32.720 --> 01:38:35.720
agree with what Gene was saying. It betrays moments that182501:38:35.880 --> 01:38:39.439
you don't think you really want to see, but Oliver182601:38:39.520 --> 01:38:43.600
Stone showed it, and I think I do appreciate that fact.182701:38:43.920 --> 01:38:48.960
It really makes you appreciate what our military how to182801:38:49.600 --> 01:38:53.079
go through in that situation. Probably even in the wars182901:38:53.159 --> 01:38:56.560
before that underfund it. When it came to taking care183001:38:56.680 --> 01:38:59.720
of those who got wounded in battle, you don't think183101:38:59.720 --> 01:39:01.520
about it. You think about those that come home and183201:39:02.039 --> 01:39:05.439
are okay. But there's a lot of emotional and physical183301:39:05.479 --> 01:39:09.079
scars that come with going to war, and I think183401:39:09.119 --> 01:39:11.840
this movie depicts it very well. It's not a movie183501:39:11.880 --> 01:39:15.520
you're gonna watch multiple times, but I definitely think you183601:39:15.520 --> 01:39:19.760
should give it a watch at least once, especially for183701:39:19.960 --> 01:39:23.880
younger audience members. That we're learning about wars and conflicts183801:39:23.920 --> 01:39:26.760
that our country has gone through over the years. So183901:39:27.479 --> 01:39:32.560
it's very well made, put together movie and it deserves184001:39:32.560 --> 01:39:34.800
your attention, even though it's one that's not really talked184101:39:34.800 --> 01:39:36.399
about a lot, which is kind of surprising.184201:39:36.640 --> 01:39:37.720
Well said, great points.184301:39:38.479 --> 01:39:40.119
Okay, I think that about wraps it up for this184401:39:40.199 --> 01:39:43.359
week's episode. As always, thank you so much for listening.184501:39:43.560 --> 01:39:46.439
Please take time to follow us and you prefer streaming platform,184601:39:46.560 --> 01:39:48.560
give us a review and rate us. If we can184701:39:48.640 --> 01:39:51.159
learn more about our show, you can visit us at184801:39:51.479 --> 01:39:55.319
all Eighties Movies podcast dot com. Have an excellent rest184901:39:55.359 --> 01:39:56.600
of your day now.185001:39:57.000 --> 01:40:00.239
People say, people say, if you don't love a mayor Erica,185101:40:00.319 --> 01:40:03.680
then get the hell out. Well, I love America. We185201:40:03.840 --> 01:40:06.159
love the people of America very much, but when it185301:40:06.199 --> 01:40:10.479
comes to the government stops right there. Thanks for standing185401:40:10.560 --> 01:40:12.399
up with us. Good Night World,
