Scanners (1981)

0:00 Hello and welcome. To the All 80s Movies Podcast, the podcast where we talk about the blockbusters, the flops, and everything in between from one of the freshest decades from movies, the 1980s. I'm your host, Bill Bant, and along with me on this journey revisiting 80s movies is my guest host, Jeff Johnson. Hello, Jeff. I would like to scan all of you in this room, one at a time. I must remind you that the scanning experience is usually a painful one, sometimes resulting in nosebleeds, earaches, stomach cramps, nausea, sometimes other symptoms of a similar nature.

0:50 There is one other thing. No one is to leave this room once the demonstration has begun. At this point, I'd like to call for volunteers. That's right, listeners. We are discussing with spoilers aplenty the 1981 science fiction horror movie Scanners. It was produced by Filmplan International and distributed by New World Mutual in Canada and Embassy Pictures in the United States. The movie stars Stephen Lack, Jennifer O'Neill, Michael Ironside, and Patrick McGugan. Written and directed by David Cronenberg, this movie is rated R with a running time of 1 hour and 43 minutes. So, what is this movie about? What's on the box? If you grew up in the 1980s and went to your local video store to rent this movie, you would find this description on the back of the VHS box. It is What's on the Box. Take it away, Jeff.

1:40 A science fiction thriller which probes the potential powers of the human mind. Scanners concerns a group of beings with supernatural extrasensory skills so strong that they can bend, twist, mutilate, and explode other human beings, using only the powers of their minds. Revik is a scanner, and he wants to band together others like him and control the world. There is only one way to stop him. Find someone with equally powerful brainwaves to destroy Revik. The special effects are sensational. The performances are vivid. Stephen Lack as the wasted artist, and Jennifer O'Neill as a scanner whose gaze is as potent as it is inviting. It all adds up to a mind-shattering experience in more ways than one.

2:30 Scanners. Scanners. Jeff, thanks so much for being here. I was fortunate enough to guest on Jeff's show of Film By for their Life Force episode, which was a lot of fun. Check it out if you haven't listened to it yet. Why don't you tell our audience a little bit about yourself and a film by podcast and your other shows? Yeah, well, Bill Bant, I love when you guys came over and did Life Force a couple seasons ago. It's been a while, man, because I think the last time I was here, we talked about Bloodsport, one of my favorite Van Damme movies. And then we did that great team up with a couple of our friends from the Shirley Can't Be Serious podcast and Def Dave. We did that Bond draft with the themes. Yes. It's been too long. But for your listeners, I will say, I'm the host of a Film By podcast where every Monday we wax intellectual about our favorite directors, their underrated movies, and what we love about them. But this current season, which is our seventh, we decided to flip the tables on our listeners with a focus on celebrating the 20th and 25th anniversaries of some of the more popular and biggest blockbusters from the years 2001 and 2006. And, Bill Band, I know you're a big Trek fan. For all the Trek fans listening, we also have our ongoing Star Trek series, Phasers Set to Stun, which also comes out every Wednesday.

3:47 Thanks, Jeff. So, Jeff, let's talk about the movie you selected. Do you remember when you first saw Scanners? As a matter of fact, I do. So I grew up a horror fan, and in the late 80s, I got my hands on some back issues of Fangoria Magazine. You remember that one, Bill? Yes, I do. Okay, love that one. One of these had the iconic scene from Scanners front and center on the cover. I read about the movie. And then that weekend when my parents took us to five star video, I found it on VHS. And yes, my mind was definitely blown. No pun intended there, of course. No pun intended. Yeah, for me, I don't remember the first time I saw this. And I tell our audience, when we have guests on, we let the guests choose the movie. So I was excited when you put this on the list because I was like, wow, I haven't seen this in a long time. So going back to watch this, I couldn't believe how much I didn't really remember outside of the iconic scene that we'll get to later. So it was good that you suggested this because I don't know when I would have got to this one myself. and it was certainly a good revisit. So let's talk about why you chose Scanners, and let's just get into the movie itself.

5:02 Well, I've got to be honest, man. I think the 80s is, without doubt, the best decade for cinema, which is one of the reasons I love your show. And when you called for the invite, I went straight to the website. I was like, wait, they haven't done Scanners. Well, yeah, they've done Scanners. And when I saw that you guys hadn't done Scanners, I thought to myself, this is my chance to do a Cronenberg film that is well known for all the right reasons. We've covered Cronenberg twice on a film buy, but Scanners was one of those I knew, I was like, you know what, I'm never going to get to talk Scanners. So I saw the shot and I took it. That's awesome. So one of the things I want to discuss initially, when you look up Scanners online, it says it's a horror movie. Do you feel that it is, or more of like a sci-fi? Which way would you lean when you're talking about this movie?

5:53 Well, I'm going to go horror movie first and foremost. I mean, you can't ignore the sci-fi element. And I don't know how good the movie is without the sci-fi element. But when you're talking David Cronenberg, he's synonymous with horror. He's synonymous with body horror. If I'm going to classify it, I'm going to call it a horror film for sure. Okay. I would actually lean more towards sci-fi. I think the premise of what their plan is, is horror fight. I'm thinking of being scared. In that respect, I never felt I was scared, but just the aspect of the scanners and what it's all about, how they came to be, felt very sci-fi-y. I would consider this more of a sci-fi film myself than I would a horror movie. Well, yeah.

6:36 I mean, it's hard to classify. That's why I loved in the 80s when we had the sci-fi horror label when you went to the video store, because I feel like they kind of go hand in hand in a lot of ways. Another thing I found very interesting about this movie is... I actually got more enjoyment watching it the second time than I did the first. Because I think once I figured out what the plot was, how everyone ties in together, and then watching that play back, it seemed more enjoyable to me. Even though I already kind of knew what was going to happen. Yeah. But I thought the second viewing was a lot better than the first viewing. Usually I try to watch these films at least three times before I prepare for a pod.

7:18 And I couldn't believe how much more I liked it the second time than the first. Just seeing how everything was put into place. Because I think the first time, I'm just trying to watch it just to enjoy it. Then the second time, I'm really trying to analyze it. And then the third time, I'm trying to do it with all my notes. But the first time... Because I really didn't remember a lot. It was more of, all right, what's going on here? How are all these people connected? And then when you find it all out in the end and then watching it the second time, I'm like, oh, wow, this is a lot more interesting to me. Well, I mean, that's a great observation because I think anyone that's watching this for the first time or maybe it's been a decade or more, you've definitely forgot just how visceral the horror is in this movie. And it kind of takes your breath away in some scenes. So you don't have time to start piecing together, well, who's who and what's the plot all about? You're just like, I can't believe I just saw that guy's head explode.

8:09 How are they doing that? This is 1981. How is Dick Smith, the makeup artist, how is he creating this stuff? So you need that second time or that third time to really focus on the plot and start to figure out, okay, well, here's what Revik's really about. Is he a villain or does he have some ground to stand on here? Because you could argue both, I think. Yeah, that is true. You know, he's technically almost created by a mad scientist who we find out is his father and basically tossed aside. And he has a ton of resentment. I can understand why he wants to do what he wants to do. In a way, he is higher involved than normal man. And because of what he's gone through, he sees himself better than the rest of us.

8:53 And that's why he wants to take over the world. From his point of view, yes, he seems like he's doing the right thing. Of course, from our point of view, he is certainly the villain. He's not, yeah. Well, for the comic book fans out there, Revik almost kind of gives off Magneto vibes. He didn't ask for what happened to him, but he's evolved and you did this to me, so now I'm going to take over. You asked for this. That's kind of how I look at Revik in a lot of ways. Yeah, that is a good comparison between the two of them. And then we have our classic hero's journey with Vale, and I think he is the weak link of the movie, unfortunately. He is. Which is not good because he's the focal point. Well, let's talk about Cameron Vale for a quick second here.

9:37 I kind of feel like he accepts the responsibility a little too fast, a little too easily. He goes from hobo with a headache to secret agent scanner within a day. That's more of a critique on Cronenberg's rushed scene writing than anything else, but I feel like in 1981, there's probably someone out there we could have got that could carry these scenes a little bit better. Yeah, there's a lot of his line deliveries that are not good. And I can see how he'd be willing to help just because of what he's been going through. You're literally listening to everyone's thoughts constantly. You don't know how to control it. And here comes someone like, hey, let me give you this injection. Boom. Your mind is now clear. And since I did that for you, I need you to do me a favor. I need you to go kill, or at least find the headscanner and deal with him. But yeah, I wish they did show a little bit more passage of time. Almost like Yoda and Luke on Dagobah to train and hone his skills.

10:31 They really only do maybe two scenes. So yeah, we have no idea what the passage of time is. You don't, and you kind of wonder, like, how bad is it for Vale? He's like a vagrant at the beginning of this film. He doesn't know what's going on with him. He doesn't know he's a scanner. Maybe he's just at that point where I'll take any answer. I'll do what it takes to make it stop. Dr. Ruth, Patrick McGuhan, you know, he kind of turns off the voices, right? He starts to explain to him, like, what's going on? And here's who you are. It's a little too convenient, I think. I'm with you. Give us a little bit more of the hero's journey. Yeah, exactly. And I have to admit, every time I heard Dr. Ruth, I just started laughing because I always think it was that way. Yeah. This is maybe one of the most unfortunate names for a character in a movie. And what are they thinking, Bill Bant? Because this is 1981, and isn't Dr. Ruth Wessenheimer kind of like a celebrity at that point?

11:22 Yeah, she's an icon of the 80s. I'm not sure when she launched, but yeah, definitely a big thing in the 80s. The three-foot sex therapist. How she became so huge and mainstream boggles the mind. Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I love not to jump to another guy, but Patrick McGuhan, he's great. But as I'm watching it, even now, I'm like, I'm seeing long shanks, but then every time someone calls his character by name, I immediately see Dr. Ruth just floating in the screen there, and I could hear that voice of hers. Oh, I was the same way. I was the same way. I couldn't help it. But he was so great, and then even Jennifer was so great. Oh, gosh, yeah. It just made Stephen Lack just, look, how do they not find a different lead for this?

12:05 I mean, let's face it. This is a very low-budget production happening in Canada. it's really rushed because they're going after tax credits, right? Correct. So they tell Cronenberg, like, hey, you can do it, but it has to be done right now, and it has to be done within two months. There's not even a script ready. So he's writing and directing the same time, the same day. In some cases, he's going home and he's writing tomorrow's scenes. So Where the movie is a little dicey, a little choppy, I think that's what he expects. There was no script. He's writing it on the go. And it's amazing that we get what we got. That's how I look at it. I like that you say choppy because one of the things I was really thinking about when I finished seeing the movie and I was trying to think my overall impression of it, there was always bits and parts. I was like, oh, I really like how they did this.

12:52 Or I really like how they explained this. Like there was all those bits and pieces. I was like, oh, this is cool. This is cool. This is cool. Overall, it does get from point A to point B like it's supposed to. We do follow the hero's journey of Val trying to find Revik. But you're right. It is choppy along that line. But there's a lot of moments in this movie I really enjoyed or wanted to explore more or understand more about the scanners. Because we do meet groups and some of them seem to have this under control. But we don't understand how they do it. There's one scene where they all kind of get together in like a meditation circle and it seems to really help.

13:34 But we're like, well, what is that? What are they doing? What are they sharing? There's a lot of questions that are unanswered in this movie that frustrated me a little bit. But just the concept of it and just seeing how scanners work and how they interact with each other and there's just... a small few that are out there. That stuff I thought I found very fascinating. Yeah. And you have to wonder, like you mentioned the group, how are they finding each other in 1981? How are they discovering each other? Right. Because I get like, when you've got a shadow government type of situation who's actively looking for people, okay, you got all these resources, right? But common everyday people, I've got something wrong with me or I've got this, something's not right. How do you find that other person? And you have to ask yourself because... As the movie progresses, a scanner's abilities, their skill sets, it's almost like, well, we have this power, but we also have this power.

14:29 And I know we'll talk a little bit about that later, but I'm always curious, how do they find each other? Right. Do they have the ability to find each other? Yeah. We know CONSEC has reports on all of them, so they kind of know where they are. But if you... And I were both scanners and we were, say, in a stadium together of 70,000 people, which I don't think we would be because we'd hear everybody thought, but could we actually find one another? It was like, oh my God, there's another scanner in this building. Yeah. What's fascinating about the scanners, it's almost like this intrusive thing. It's a little perverse because you're not going to know that I'm a scanner unless you are. Because if I'm scanning you, if I'm getting into your head, you start to feel that tremor, the quaking and the nosebleeds and all that good stuff. And you're looking around, you see someone that's kind of similar. Well, now you know, oh, that dude's scanning me.

15:19 Like, hey, man. But would you just actively do that? Yeah. I don't think so. Clearly, it's an unpleasant experience for both the scanner and the scanee. So I like it. But I have questions. Yeah, that was something I certainly caught the second viewing. Because when they mentioned if you get scanned, you either get nauseous, you get the nosebleed. And when Val meets the guy at the art, gallery and he scans them and then he gets really sick i'm like oh okay that's one of the after effects of being scanned and i missed that the first time i mean i knew probably had something to do with it but it is a documented effect of if you get scanned one of these things will happen to you so you kind of know what had happened.

15:59 Bill band i know we kind of already talked about ironside but i i just i'm curious what was your thoughts i know you said you you'd seen this before but it's been a while what are you thinking of ironside in this like Is the performance holding up for you? I love him in this. And I was really bummed to find out that Rivick's technically gone. But I would love to have seen him appear in the sequels or somehow continue that character. I mean, he is ultra creepy. And I remember watching it. I was like, what's going on with his forehead? I was like, what's that bad makeup job? What the hell is going on? And then finding out he tried to drill a hole in his head. You're like, holy shit, this guy is messed up. You got to get the voices to stop, right? Yeah.

16:45 How else can you do it? Drill a hole in your head. It made sense. Yeah. What I love about Ironside, I mean, think about this. He's got maybe a dozen acting credits before we get the scanners. And I'm talking bit parts and like TV movies and shows, he comes in just to do, like he's supposed to be like one of the patients, like on the film, right? You know, test subject this, and let's see what their powers are like. But he absolutely crushes those scenes, impresses Cronenberg so much. And I guess this is one of the blessings of not having a script written. Cronenberg just says, you know what? This is my guy. He's my villain. I'm going to write him into the whole movie now. Yeah. I'm so impressed by Michael Ironside in this movie, honestly. The only bummer is, in the beginning of the movie, when he's having those secret meetings with the security staff, and we're not supposed to know who the security guy is talking to, I'm like, your voice is so distinctive, I know.

17:35 Oh, gosh, yeah. It was a dead giveaway. There's no mistaking Michael Ironside's voice. It's iconic. Absolutely. It's like, oh, he's working for Revik. I know that voice. We all know that voice. It's Viper. Yep. All right, ready to move on to some favorite scenes or moments? Yeah, let's talk about them. What do you got? Start us off, Jeff. I think you'll agree that the first scanner death is why we're all watching this movie. Hell yeah. I love that Cronenberg intentionally pushed it back 10 minutes into the film because he was worried that people arriving to the theater late are going to miss it. He kind of goes out of sequence. He puts the veil stuff ahead and then kind of peppers it in 10, 15 minutes later, because he just didn't want people to walk in and be like, oh, I missed the big scene.

18:24 This moment's awesome, though. Ironside, as Revik, is so charismatic. He just seems like, oh, this is a nice guy. If you've never seen it before and you haven't watched the trailer, you're like, oh, this guy's about to be toast. Don't volunteer. He just told you what's going to happen. Why is anyone in the room wanting to volunteer? And Michael Ironside, hey, I'll do it. He's like, come on down. Should I keep my eyes open? I don't care. Just think of something. That moment, I mean, the facial acting that both these guys are doing is phenomenal. It's absolutely phenomenal. What do you think about this one? Do you remember the first time you saw this and were you ready for. It, Bill? I think I saw a clip of it somewhere else. And I was like, what the hell is that from? And my friend was like, oh, that's from Scanners.

19:05 So that's when I was like, oh, okay, I need to see this. So unfortunately, I knew it was kind of coming, but I didn't know in the context of the film. He's my favorite scanner. The way he reacts to being like reverse scanned. I think he has the best scan acting of everyone in the movie. Like, I love how he reacts to that. He's kind of trying to grab at his neck and the way he's jerking. Because some of the other scenes, they look kind of ridiculous. Yeah. That must have been hard as an actor. Yeah. And Cronenberg going, OK, I need to just like jerk like you're being scanned. And some of them were just funny. But him, if you ask me who was a true scanner, like one of the one of the actors, an actual I would say it was him. Yeah, because I actually feel like he is going through something. before his head explodes i love watching him before his head explodes then the head exploding itself.

19:56 Well he's very like the way he the confidence in his voice he's very matter-of-factly and i'm like oh this guy's important he's a somebody right and to your point if someone could check on him he This guy looks like he's having an aneurysm on camera. And you're absolutely right, Bill Bant. This guy's acting is phenomenal. And think about it. I don't recognize him from anything else after Scanners. No idea. But he's got one of the most famous moments in all of sci-fi horror as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. Because you even kind of see that moment when it clicks like, oh, I'm in trouble. Mm-hmm. And there's no way I can ask for help. I somehow have to defeat this guy or else I'm in huge trouble. Not knowing his brain is going to explode, but I love watching him.

20:41 This moment is Apollo Creed full of hubris getting into the ring with Ivan Drago and then just getting destroyed. Yes. And then like, what have I gotten myself into? Love this scene. And we got a creepy opening for sure. But to give us this early on, I'm just like, I'm all in. What else are you going to give me, David Cronenberg? Before we can even talk about that, I got to ask you, what scene you got? I have the Benjamin Pierce attack when they come to the cabin, and we really see Val use his powers for the first time to try to stop everything that's going on. So we find out in the movie that Benjamin Pierce used to work under Revik, and they're trying to find Revik, so Val is trying to find him to get more information, and he now has become the struggling artist. Well, no, now he's become a big-name artist. Mm-hmm.

21:34 And he goes to his cabin to talk to him about Revik. And he's telling him to stay away from Revik. And in the meantime, Revik is just trying to wipe out any scanner that's pro-Revik. And a bunch of them come to the cabin that he's in and blow Pierce away. And Val's like, well, it ain't gonna happen to me. And uses all his powers to turn the shotguns on themselves and throw them across the room. And I was like, wow, okay, this is really showing the true power of I mean, yes, we saw a man's head explode, but there's certainly a lot more to it than that. So I kind of like that unveiling of Vale's power and how quickly he's been able to channel it to do these things. Whereas, like I said, two days ago, he had no idea.

22:16 We're hoping it's a longer period than that, that he's been trained, but he's doing good. It's probably one of Vale's better moments because, to your point, it lets us know how truly powerful this guy can be. This is minimal training. He doesn't really know what he's doing yet. And for him to be able to have four gunmen turn the guns on themselves and the way he can throw them around the room, it's like, okay, now I'm buying into this guy. He could go the distance with someone like Revik. I saw what Revik could do, but now I'm looking at this guy and it's like, wow, okay, he can handle himself. Right. And can he be just as dangerous? Yes. Because this is new to him to do this kind of stuff.

22:56 He's walking the thin line right now. Will he stay on the good side or will he cross over to evil? You can't talk Scanners without talking about the blood and the gore and the horror. I got to ask you your thought on this, because at this point we've seen someone's head explode, right? We've seen some pretty gnarly stuff, but I got to tell you, in this scene that you're talking about, seeing that guy get shot. I mean, usually most 80s movies, most any movie, if I shoot you with a shotgun and You know, you fly back 10 feet or you're down immediately. This guy takes a couple shots. And even his act, he was like, ah! Is that a hard one for you to watch? Because it feels so real when you see it. Yeah, especially not expecting to see what you see. I grew up on 80s TV, like A-Team, Miami Vice. Someone gets shot, half the time they don't bleed. You don't see their... Clothes bursting open and stuff flying out. And yes, it's different movies. But yeah, you're thinking, get one shot.

23:55 He's going to fly across the room, hide behind a couch or something, and that's it. And he's just sitting in there in the chair full of holes. You're like, oh, man. Yeah, absolutely. The budget is going to the effects, that's for sure. And rightly so. I mean, could you imagine scanners without good makeup and special effects? We're not talking about today, I promise you. Without someone like Dick Smith, we're not talking about scanners. No, not at all. No. Yeah, today would all be computer effects and it just wouldn't be as fun. It would be CGI and you'd watch it. You'd be bored. You'd be like, eh, I know what they're doing here. But when you watch, that's what's great about the 80s or even like the late 70s to that point with, you know, Industrial Light and Magic. You watch these movies and you're like, okay, how did they do that? And there's a lot of how did they do that in Scanners.

24:44 Yes. That's what always brings me back to it. I'm here for Michael Ironside and his delivery of his lines and just his presence, but I'm here for the explosions. You know? Yeah, especially with production being rust, and you've got to figure this out fast. I couldn't even imagine. The stress that someone like Cronenberg's feeling to write and direct in real time, I don't even know how someone like Dick Smith is handling this. there's no finished script. How are you supposed to know what to have ready? Yeah. It had to be tough. Had to be tough. Definitely. I got another scene I'd like to talk about. Of course. If we can. How about that bus crash into the Disco Matt record store?

25:25 That is pretty cool. This is a low budget film, a horror film in Canada for tax breaks. And to see a small bus go through a storefront and land on its side is just awesome. Again, I'm like, well, how do they, how do they get away with that? This is not a set. That's true. Plow through it, man. And to get the bus to flip, I don't know what we're doing. I don't know how they're, I don't know how they're pulling it off, but all I know it's awesome when you watch this, especially when you're, if you're lucky enough to have a big screen and 4k and see, and see scanners, I'm watching Frank Zappa and Donna summer albums just fly all over the place. And I'm like, damn, this isn't like set design where they just put a bunch of fake stuff in the background. That's, that's the real deal. It's awesome. Absolutely love that moment.

26:07 Yeah. And that's one of those, we got to get in one take or we don't get it. Yeah. Props to the stunt crew for getting that right on the first try. You're absolutely right. That is a pretty cool stunt scene. Yeah. A scene for me that I loved when they're in the OBGYN's waiting room. Oh, yeah. Jennifer's in there, Kim, and there's a pregnant woman in the waiting room with her, and she's a scanner herself, and all of a sudden she's getting scanned. And then that was the, oh, shit. Everything comes together at that moment. Like, oh, my God. They're trying to create a whole new race of scanners. Yeah. That freaked me out, but I loved it because it took a second for me to like, wait, what?

26:50 What's going on here? Is it the wait? Nope. They're panning down to the stomach. Holy shit. There's a little baby scanner in there. Well, it's such an awesome scene, man, because at first I'm like, hey, Jennifer, don't scan the pregnant lady. Don't be careful. And then you're like, wait, is the pregnant lady evil? Is she scanning her? Right. But then when you go down, then I switch again, Bill Bant, because I'm like, don't tell me you're scanning the unborn child. That's dangerous. But nope, it's the unborn child scanning Jennifer. I love that about this movie because it just shows it's just a raw power that they have. And you can't turn it off. All you can do is hope to control it.

27:30 Yeah. Great moment. Absolutely love that. That was the, whoa, okay. All right, now I understand what the hell's going on here. That was good. What else you got, Jeff? I got one more scene I'd love to talk about. Okay. The final showdown between Revik and Vale. Yes. This is just an early 80s makeup effects extravaganza. And we were talking about that how do they do it kind of stuff. I'm thinking about this is the main event right here. Because you set me up with the head explosion an hour earlier. But now I'm seeing eyeballs explode. I'm seeing the veins pulsating. And they're just going at it. It's an awesome fight where no one throws a single punch.

28:12 What are your thoughts? When you're watching this showdown, is it satisfying for you? Or are you like, come on, throw them across the room? Oh yeah, if you like makeup effects, this is awesome. But yeah, it is weird because the whole time, no one's really touching one another. It's all cross room and it's your will. Who's got the stronger will to take out the other person? And Revik does have an advantage. He's honed his skills a lot longer than Vale. And you're really thinking, Vale's done. Like, what the hell is he going to do at this point? And when they do have the final reveal, you're like, oh shit, that's something else we didn't know that they could do. That's gotta be the biggest pull the rug from under you moment in this movie where you're like, what, what the hell scanners can do that too. I go back and forth on whether I like it, but it's pretty amazing.

28:59 I love Ironsides. He's in, he's in, he's in his moment here. He's fantastic. You're surprised that either one of them would have survived what the damage they were doing to one another. Yeah. Really expect us to find both dead. Yeah. It's sad because typically Ironsides, in a film like this where, you know, you're about to confront the main villain, this is the chance where the main villain is going to dump some exposition and tell you, here's my evil plan and here's why I'm going to win. And we don't get that. We get, hey, Dr. Ruth has been lying to you. He's actually your dad. We're brothers, man. And it's more about recruiting and like, hey, let's work together, me and you, and we'll do this together. And, you know, Vale's like, nah, I'm not having that. So he's kind of pushed. Like now it's like, it's on a whole nother level. So it's okay. Now I have to, I have to take this guy out knowing he's my brother, knowing that I wanted him to work with me. So there's a level of tragedy to the ending of this that, that I don't think a lot of people think about or talk about.

29:55 Yeah, I mean, he literally knows Rivick's his brother for all of five minutes, and that's it, and then boom. I got to toast him. He gets more toasted than Rivick does. Yeah, we got people getting burnt, hearts exploding, veins popping. People catching on fire. It's a lot. There's a lot in this. It's a lot of FX fun. Yeah. I mean, you got to think, like I know if you're a movie buff, If I say body horror, are you into it? Oh, Cronenberg? Yeah, I like his stuff. Or no, I can't do it. Scanners, I think it opens the door to his ability to take on that mantle.

30:36 I mean, you could argue like two years later, he does Videodrome, which has got a lot more sick stuff in it. If you've seen Videodrome, you know what I'm talking about. But I think this is like Scanners, like ground zero for body horror. You know, Scanners is going to lead to Videodrome. Videodrome leads to The Fly in 86. when I think body horror, I think I always think the fly cause it's, Oh yeah. There's so much, but. It makes you wonder what they could have done. They weren't so rushed to get the film finished. I don't need a bigger budget. I don't need, I mean, yeah, you can give me someone else in the veil role, but if they just would have said, okay, man, we're going to give you six weeks to get this script ready to shoot. And let's see what happens. I think the story is way more cohesive. I still, I love the story.

31:22 I love the movie. But imagine when he has time and he's not rushed. Oh yeah. What happens? You could argue that we get a better film, but then what happens if you do give him that six weeks? Does Michael Ironside exist? True. Does he stick to the script? And it's like, Hey, I just, this guy was in a couple of scenes and I'd love to have him in more, but I can't. So I don't know. It's, it's kind of like that cat in the box thing. Schrodinger's cat, you know, is it alive or is it dead? It's a lot, you know, as long as it's, I don't open the box, you know, it's both. Right. Yeah. I like what we got. And I just want to shout out the ending credits. I love the old school computer. That was cool. I was like, oh, yeah, all right.

32:03 A little green screen font. Yeah. You got to wonder, is that creative for the movie? Or is that like, guys, we have got like six bucks left. We've spent all the money. Fire up the computer there. We'll just do it. We'll do it that way. It works, though. It's so fun. Yeah, it is fun. I do enjoy that. Yeah. Okay, let's move on to our Swiss cheese and complaint department. And what potholes, bloopers, or general complaints would you like to file about scanners? Jeff, what do you got? I've kind of alluded to this already, but Vale just moves too fast into intelligent hero mode. I mean, I got a hard time with him going all 007 and sneaking into this high-level security facility in a hazmat suit.

32:49 And then he hacks into their Commodore 64 to find out all about the drug. where it's being shipped, who it's being given to, and then he's able to slip right back out and then go report to Dr. Ruth. Now, this is a guy, again, he was homeless a couple scenes ago, and he was unwilling. He was like, I don't know if I believe all this, but how does he get to that level of expertise in espionage? That's my question. That's true. Bill, did it bother you at all, that moment? Because we have to have that moment. I get it. But I feel like he could have been more of along for the ride. He's helping someone do it. I think it was okay. But now that you're saying this, I'm like, yeah, he's maybe never even seen a computer before. Yeah. Until two weeks ago. And all of a sudden I'm like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.

33:32 And he doesn't even know that he really has that ability to even scan a computer. Yeah. Come on. Okay. So. I'm with you on this. It makes sense. Would you agree that we have to use suspension of disbelief when you're watching a movie? Yes. But there's certain rules like you just shouldn't break. Like, once you've created the world for us, at some point you can only suspend the disbelief so far. I'm all in on him scanning, like the scanners. Like, they can scan, they can read minds, they can do these things. But he can read minds and computer systems? He can go into the computer's quote-unquote brain and scan the files? That's just, that's hard, man. That's a tough one for me.

34:15 Computers weren't what they were back then, so maybe. I don't know. And how about that computer has a self-destruct mode that actually causes it to explode? Yes. Who built this thing, man? Come on. Bill, what kind of cheese do you got? What are you thinking? Okay, so Revik's plot is about creating a new race of scanners by giving the ephemeral to all these pregnant women, making all these new races of scanners. Like, this is kind of a slow-moving master plan you have, because you're going to have a race of two-year-olds going around scanning. I mean, you know, you've got to wait until they get to, like, 14, maybe 15 to kind of... And he's...

35:00 I think he says he's 35. So he's not taking over the world until at least 50. I like the idea of it, but when I was thinking about the execution, I was like, oh, yeah, this is a long-term plan he's got going on here. He's in for the long game, man. Yep, he is. I'm going to take over... It's going to take me 47 years, but you wait and see. Yeah, that's a tough one. Who's helping him corral these kids and training them? Where are you keeping them? Where are you feeding them? Yeah. All that stuff. Well, and we just watched an unborn fetus nearly kill Kim. Yep. So what happens when the kid throws a tantrum when he's like two years old? You can't reason with that.

35:42 No, you cannot. Meanwhile, the kid can blow your head up. So I don't know. Plan global domination. Let's take a step back. How about, hey, we're going to infiltrate this part of the government, or we're going to set up our own organization, and we're going to quietly acquire wealth. I don't know. I've just never understood that about villains, Bill Bant. Do you need to rule the world, or can you just get filthy rich and live the good life? That's what I say. Can't take it with you, so... You can't. You can only spend so much. Yeah. That's a good one, though. The plan. I thought it was good until I started thinking about it. I'm like, ooh, yeah, this is going to be a lot of planning on the plan. For sure.

36:23 So a complaint, and maybe I'm out of line. Go ahead. Okay. So let's talk about the Scanner's powers. Okay. Or the diversity of the Scanner's powers. Because I don't know that the mythology is clearly laid out for us. So it's like, okay, you can scan someone. You can read their thoughts. You can get in their mind. You can cause them pain. You can kill them, right, just with the power of your mind. I'm in. But like we talked about, but you can also get into the mind of a computer. You can read computer files doing like the Spock, my mind or your mind, kind of a mind meld thing with a computer. And then the ending, man.

37:05 Even if I'm buying into the reading inanimate objects, can we talk about the ending? The ending ending or the. The ending ending. Okay, go ahead. One more power, right? So we have watched Revik. These guys are just going toe-to-toe. No holds barred. Once Vale's eyes explode out of his head, I'm like, this guy's done. Okay? He's not winning the fight. And then Michael Ironside's doing that awesome... He's got the veins pulsating. The eyes are all white. Looks like a demon. Just fantastic. And I'm like, okay, it's like you said, no one survives this. And when she walks into the room and she's like, okay, and you hear Vale and you're like, hey, okay, what's going on?

37:51 He's kind of hidden behind the furniture or whatever. There's Michael Ironside, except now he's got Vale's voice. He's like, hey, it's me. So a scanner can astral project themselves into someone else and take over their body? Is that what we're saying? I don't like it, man. Am I out of line, Bill Bant? You tell me. Was this taking the power too far? Or is this like a Star Wars thing where every time you get a new movie, a Jedi can do new and exciting shit? I don't know. I just felt like it broke the rules that it set up for us in the beginning of the movie. I think it would have been better if we found out that he could, okay, maybe jump into Revik's mind.

38:32 And now he controls it, but Revik's still in there. Because we don't know what happened really to Revik. Did Revik then jump into Vale's body and that's now the corpse? Oh, yes. Is it a swap? Right. Or it's just like an obsession thing where now Revik is kind of trapped in like this hellish limbo where he can't control himself. Right. That's what I'm wondering. Yeah. We don't really know. Does he completely take over or just partially take over? I know it's a lot of holes. You see the main shareholder of Revik's body. I don't know. Yeah. Swiss cheese, my friend. That's what that is. Yes, it is. My big thing is, okay, Revik keeps sending people with guns after Vale. That's not working anymore.

39:16 You've got to come up with something else. Anytime someone approaches Vale with a gun, forget it. They're toast. You're talking about people getting shot at in this movie. I love the fact the beginning the opening you know going back to the opening with with Vale they're there you know Dr. Roos guys are there they tag him with that dart that looks like it could take down a rhino yes Bill Band I want you to think about all the time someone has shot a tranquilizer gun at you how quick are you to pull that dart out you don't run around and just keep it in right No, I think I would pull that out right away. Every time I'm shot with one, I pull it out immediately, right? So this guy leads him on a chase to this really awesome-looking mall. I'd love to know where that mall's at and if it's still there, because fantastic mall. This moment in Scanners is one of my favorite mall chase scenes.

40:08 It's up there with the beginning of Commando when Arnold takes out all those security guards in the Galleria. But the whole time he's moving, he does that ninja move up the escalator, hanging on. He never takes the dart out of his palm. Take it out, man. What are we doing? Because when she gets shot with one of the... Pull it down right away. Pull it right out. Yeah, he's like, oh, I know what that's going to do to us. Yep. Take the dart out. That's all I'm saying. When you get shot with a tranq, take it out. Absolutely, man. Let's move on to... Hey, it's that actor. In this segment, we spotlight a character actor who's seen in many other films, an actor making their big screen debut, or an actor that makes an uncredited cameo. It's that actor. There's not a lot of people to choose from in this, Jeff, so I wouldn't be surprised if we both had the same person.

40:58 I've got two. Maybe you go first. That way, you got somebody, because I can't imagine there'll be three. I can't imagine you're going to say someone I'm not thinking about, but I don't want to steal thunder, so. OK, so the only person I immediately recognized from something else was the killer from the record store, the one that was going to shoot Kim and Val. And he had the shotgun. Oh, OK. In the credits, he's just killing record store. But the actor's name is Giza Kovacs. And the only other thing I recognize him for, because my favorite David Cronenberg movie is The Dead Zone. He was Greg Stilson's right hand man, Sonny. Oh, OK. So he was the one that was doing all the dirty work for him. And I was looking through his credits, a lot of TV stuff, and probably the only other big movie that he was in was The Sentinel with Michael Douglas and Kiefer Sutherland. Once I saw him, I was like, okay, I at least recognize that guy. There's not many other people outside of main cast that I had no idea.

41:53 Well, it's interesting that you had someone that wasn't on my radar. Oh, okay. More interesting, the guy's name. You said his last name is Kovacs? Yes. Okay, that's... blowing my mind. So, I mean, it's real, I'm quick to point out Lawrence Dane, you know, he plays Brayden Keller. I see him, I immediately see the cop from Child's Play. Oh, okay. And I know this because I got to meet him and talk with him, the cast of My Bloody Valentine, a gentleman by the name of Thomas Kovacs. He played Mike in My Bloody Valentine, a fantastic guy. He's really funny, a lot of fun to talk with. He's got an uncredited role. He's, you know, you talked about those, the people kind of all like the group, dynamic where they're trying to meditate and work together right he plays boyfriend you know uncredited but because i was like is it nah that wasn't you know but then you gotta remember you know this is a canadian feature thomas kovacs from canada it all made sense so i was like hey so how about that how about hey it's that kovacs yeah.

42:56 We each got our own kovacs so love it man All right, let's move on to facts and trivia. What are some fun facts and trivia we can share or learn about Scanners? I got a couple, Bill Bant. All right, go for it. What do you got? Let's give this movie the respect and credit that it's due. In 2014, this film was actually put out as a Criterion Collection release. And when I talk about Scanners looking awesome in 4K, you got to get this. It's available. You can still get it. And I strongly recommend it. This is a Criterion Edition Scanners. Think about all the horror films that are out there, the famous ones, right?

43:37 I don't care if we're talking A Nightmare on Elm Street or Friday the 13th or Halloween. None of them have a Criterion Collection release. So given Scanners, it's proper due, man. I love it. There you go. What do you got, Bill? So David Cronenberg once called this movie the most frustrating film he ever made. And we've kind of discussed a little bit due to financing and the tax write-off requirements. Production was rushed with virtually no pre-production and filming beginning before the script was finished. So Kronenberg had to write scenes in the morning and shoot them later that day, often out of order, while the crew sometimes literally drove around looking for locations. And the production itself was just very challenging by tension between the lead actors, particularly Jennifer and Patrick. Supposedly did not get along. Wow.

44:26 That's unfortunate. Yeah. I mean, you think about this. Would you agree that having the two of them in a movie like this gives it a little bit of veritas, gives it a little bit of something extra, right? Yes. This is like the horror version of getting Alec Guinness to do Star Wars in 77, right? It's like, hey, we're a real film. We got real incredible actors and actresses here. It's a bummer that they're not getting along. I hate hearing when, you know, because I know you have to do a ton of research for your show. I do a bunch for mine. It's always unfortunate when you find out like, oh man, these guys were great on screen, but then you find out like they did not get along behind the scenes. It's a bummer. Yeah. Bill Bant, I know we've talked about heads exploding, but let's talk about it a little bit more.

45:09 Oh, yes, please. So two things. Let me bookend this for you. Being in the movie, obviously we have the iconic head explosion scene, right? And they're going back and forth trying to figure out how to do this. And they land on like, hey, I think we're going to have a small explosive. It's going to work. Michael Ironside is like, wait, you want to detonate an explosive next to my head? I'm sitting three feet from the guy. Yeah, it'll be okay. And he's like, no, no, no. I see you guys all behind the plexiglass. If I'm doing this, you're doubling my salary or you're finding another way to do it. So then they do find the other way to do it, which is fantastic because they load this gel resin head with leftover food and some entrails and some fake blood and some other stuff, just whatever's lying around. And then Guy on set's like, all right, everyone set the camera up, get out of the way, and here's what's going to happen.

46:03 And he takes a shotgun and shoots it from the back of the head. And that's how we get the iconic. Explosion, right? But that wasn't supposed to be the last head exploding explosion. The original ending featured the top of Cameron Vale's head exploding with sparks. And for reasons I don't understand, Cronenberg decided, I'm going to cut that one. So I don't know if that's a situation where it just didn't look good enough. But could you imagine? I mean, talk about body horror. We've seen the guy's eyes explode out. His arms are all veined out. He's bleeding out of every orifice. Could you imagine if the top of his head would have exploded in fireworks? That would have been awesome. I don't know why we lost it. Don't know why. Oh, and I have to give a shout out to the ConSec cleaning crew because after the head explosion and then we see shots of the auditorium, there's no carnage whatsoever.

46:49 The table's clean. The first three rows should have had brain matter all over it. Does ConSec have their own, like, are you on, do they have their own cleaning crew on staff? Or is this like, I mean, most places it's like, it's a third party. Like we've got a contract with Ajax cleaning supply. Like that guy's coming in. He's like, I didn't sign up for this, man. There's yeah. They must have been just off screen with their mops just ready. I guess. I've seen this before. This is not going to be good. Get in there and clean. Yeah. Bill Bant, what else can you tell me about Scanners? So I always find this funny because I always love ages of actors and stuff like this. So Daryl Revick refers to Cameron Bale as his kid brother. Despite the fact that Michael Ironside, who plays Daryl, was actually four years younger than Stephen Lack, who plays Cameron.

47:32 Are you kidding me? Yes. In the film, yeah, Daryl's supposed to be 35, while Ironside was just under 30 when the movie was filmed. I mean, credit to Ironside. I mean, obviously, he's pretty young in this, but he still looks like Michael Ironside. Yes, he does. He decided, like, I'm going to look like a 45-year-old guy forever. For at least the next 25 years. Yeah, so if you're telling me Babyface Stephen Lack is actually older than him, that's. Really surprising to me. I wouldn't believe it either. I never would have thought that. Oh, man. Can I give you one last fun fact? Yes, please. Okay. So this is the film that made nosebleeds a thing for psychic warfare. And think about this. Because throughout the 80s, we get movies like The Fury and Firestarter and Newer movies, we get stuff like Chronicle and Doctor Sleep. Eleven on Stranger Things, like, it's like that iconic, like, every time Elle had to use her powers and she's pushing the limits of herself, the nose starts bleeding, right? You know it's like, oh, it's on, right? That doesn't happen without scanners, though.

48:39 This is the movie that made nosebleeds a thing for, like, people using telepathy or telekinesis or any of that stuff. This is ground zero for nosebleeds, Bill Bant. Now that I think about it, because then... Because I used to have really bad allergies, and I used to get nosebleeds a lot. Now I'm wondering, was I just getting scanned a whole bunch by someone in my neighborhood? You were getting scanned, man. Yeah, damn it. Damn it. Some kid's scanning you, man. That's what's happening. Holy shit. Never thought about that. You survived, though. That's what's important. Yes, that is good. All right, let's move on to box office. So, scanners hit theaters on January 14th, 1981, made for an estimated 4.2 million dollars the film went on to earn 14.2 million at the box office unfortunately there is no data on how many screens or weeks it was out in theaters but it did end up being the 52nd highest grossing movie of the year in north america And then moving on to reviews, when growing up in the 80s, we would watch sneak previews with Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert to hear their reviews and watch clips of upcoming movies. Their review of Scanners was split.

49:43 Gene brought the premise and enjoyed following the story, which he found to be a complicated thriller. where Roger didn't care for the characters, but found Cronenberg's craft and directing interesting. Rotten Tomatoes gives it a tomato meter score of 69%, with a popcorn meter score of 64%. It also has an IMDb rating of 6.7. So, before we wrap up this week's episode, this takes us to additional thoughts and questions. Is there any additional thoughts or information you want to share with our audience, Jeff, about this movie? Just that if you have not seen this ever or if it's been a while, it's a great ride, man. I say watch it. Get yourself the Criterion Collection. That's what I've got. But if not, it is streaming on HBO Max. So if you have HBO Max, you can check it out there too.

50:31 My question for you, have you seen the sequels or even Scanner Comp? So I've seen Scanners 2. I was not a fan. Okay. And I just was like, you know, I don't think that we're going to. you had a great thing you were like hey let's just let's have Michael Ironside show up now maybe if they would have went down that road we could have had something but they didn't couple sequels a TV series it wasn't for me though maybe I need to go back and revisit it maybe I will but because now I'm all I'm all scanned up so I might give it another try. I haven't seen them and I heard they're not really affiliated with the first one pretty much just not really only so I don't know if I'll ever get around to checking those out especially again there's no returning cast members whatsoever Yeah.

51:13 And we'll keep this in mind, too. I'm trying to remember who it was. About 10 years ago, they decided they were going to do a remake. And there were some pretty significant names involved, but Cronenberg would not sign off on it because he wasn't going to get paid and he wasn't going to get anything out of it. So he said nope, and then the movie just kind of went away, just vanished from production. What is your favorite Cronenberg movie? Probably The Fly. The Fly, okay. I get it. It's gory and it's gross and it's sci-fi at its best, but it is such a tragic film. And I challenge anyone to watch the ending of that movie where Geena Davis is holding the shotgun and tears are streaming out of her eyes and the fly grabs the gun and slowly pulls it to its temple. basically begging in my suffering. And she's like, I can't, I can't, you know, and then she does it. That's a hard scene to watch, man. And not because it's gory or anything.

52:11 It's just, it just plays on your heart. It's heartbreaking for both Gina Davis and Jeff Goldblum in that. So I'm going to say The Fly. He's got some, he's got such a great body of work. Yeah. But I'm going, I'm going The Fly. How about you, Bill Bant? What do you got? Oh, I've always loved The Dead Zone. Ooh, that's a great one. Always loved that one. Uh-huh. Did you ever watch the, uh, The series with Anthony Michael Hall? Oh, hell yeah. And I got so pissed that they canceled it before they brought it to a resolution. Never should have done that. Yeah. They should have let that... Give us a movie. I mean... Exactly. Just tie it up. Let's call Hall. Let's bring him back. Let's do it. I don't know who has the rights to that. That was a USA show, but. Yeah. But yeah, I was riveted to that. I've actually been watching a couple episodes recently, and I still love it.

52:54 He did a good job with that. That's a great choice. I would say... You calling out Dead Zoned because that's one of those situations where I think the film is just as captivating as the book. If you've read the novel by King, it's awesome, but the movie is just as awesome. Yeah. All right, so let's move on to our rating. So we use a five-star system here with zero stars being the worst and five stars being the best, and half-star increments are allowed here. Since Jeff picked our movie today, it's safe to assume that you should give it good marks. But will I agree? So Jeff, what is your rating for Scanners? Bill Bant, I'm fair, but I'm firm. So I'm going to give Scanners three and a half out of five.

53:40 That's one star for Ironside and what he's doing in this movie. And then the other two and a half have to go to makeup artist Dick Smith. Because everyone knows Scanners. Even if you haven't seen Scanners... you know Scanners is the movie where the guy's head explodes. I mean, we learned it in Wayne's World, for crying out loud. We all love Scanners, even if we haven't seen it. And it's for those two guys, mainly, in my opinion. Yeah, I give this one a solid three. It is one of those movies I think you need to watch more than once just to kind of absorb everything that is going on. I think you do get caught up in the effects and the abilities, but when you're really trying to figure out the story and what's supposed to happen, it really wasn't until the second viewing that I caught it. Unfortunately, our main actor, Stephen Lack, is the weakest of the actors, and it makes worse by the fact by his co-stars, because they are very strong.

54:31 Yeah. Jennifer O'Neil and... Patrick and Michael Irons signed. But there's a lot of good stuff in there. It was really after I watched it, I was like, oh, I did like this idea. I did like that idea. I would certainly recommend it if for some reason you have not watched it. Yep. Jeff, thank you so much for being on the show. And again, why don't you take a moment to plug your excellent podcast and let our audience know where they can find you. I have had nothing but pleasure here talking Scanners with you. I look forward to the next time you will hopefully have me back because, like I said, the 80s is the absolute best decade for cinema, and we don't get to talk about it a whole lot on my show, which is why I love the All 80s Movie Podcast.

55:12 And I look forward to what you guys are doing, and I can't wait for a chance to come back. So in the meantime, you can check out a film by podcast, We are streaming on every single platform. You can go to the website, filmbypodcast.com, YouTube, at a film by podcast. We've got all that stuff happening. Check us out. I think you'll be happy. And, you know, if anything, you're listening to the All 80s Movie Podcast, check out the Life Force episode because that was a fun time. I got to tell you. Yeah, definitely. We do have a link for that from our website, so if you want to check that out. And so that wraps it up for this episode. As always, thank you so much for listening, and thanks again to Jeff for joining me today. If you enjoyed today's episode, we really appreciate if you'd follow the All 80s Movies podcast, leave us a rating, and write us a review on your favorite podcast platform. It helps more movie fans discover the show. Have a question? A favorite 80s movie you want us to cover or some feedback to share? We'd love to hear from you. Email us at all80smoviespodcast at gmail.com or visit us online at all80smoviespodcast. com. Have a totally awesome day, everyone.

56:21 And remember, the 80s may be over, but the movies are forever. Thank you so much.