Dirty Rotten Scoundrels (1988)

0:00 Everything podcast. Hello and welcome to the All Eighties Movies podcast podcast, where we talk about the blockbusters, love blocks and everything in between from one of the prestest decades from movies, the nineteen eighties. I'm your host Bill Banton, locked me on this journey revisiting eighties movies. Is my co host Jason Massek. Hello, Jason Freddy.

0:41 As a younger man, I was a sculptor, a painter, and a musician. There was just one problem. I wasn't very good. As a matter of fact, I was dreadful. I finally came to the frustrating conclusion that I had taste and style, but not talent. I knew my limitations. We all have our limitations, Freddy. Fortunately, I discovered that taste and style were commodities that people desired. Freddy. What I am saying is know your limitations. You are a moron. That's right, Listeners, we are discussing with spoilers of Plenty, the nineteen eighty eight comedy Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. It was produced by Bernard Williams and distribed it by Ryan Pictures. The movie stars Michael Kain, Steve Martin, and Glenn Headley.

1:24 Directed by Frank Oz. This movie is rated PG with a running time of one hour and fifty minutes. It is a remake of Bedtime Story, which was released in nineteen sixty four and starred Marlon Brando, David Niven, and Shirley Jones. So what is this movie about? What's on the box? If you grew up in the nineteen eighties, in what's your local video store to rent this movie? You would find this description on the back of the VHS box. It is what's on the box? Take it away. Jason, a connoisseur of conning. Lawrence Jamison Michael Kaine is running the ultimate royal scam on the Riviera. He's posing as a deposed prince, raising funds for the freedom fighters of his stricken homeland. Should a wealthy commoner care to give her all to his noble cause, so be it, provided she also kicks in cash, jewelry and gambling chips.

2:15 But his hustling highness gets royally flushed when one day a pretender to his throne turns up. He's Freddie Benson Steve Martin, a small time scam artist who has enough on Jamison to make a mess of the monarchy. So the rivals make a wager. The first to extract fifty thousand dollars from the next woman they see wins and the loser goes into exile. Enter Janet Colgate Glen Hedley, a naive American detergent heiress, and the races on with Jamison ready to take her and Freddy eager to make her. The innocent soap queen is well on her way to the cleaners in this hilarious comedy that proves that anybody can be taken in by dirty, rotten scoundrels.

2:58 Dirty rotten skiss. So that was what's in the box. Let's move on to our av snapshot as we highlight some of the creative forces from this movie. Jason, who do you got? All right, let's get into it. This will be fun. Well, I got to talk about Michael Kain playing one of the protagonist roles of English con artist Lawrence Jamison, so real quick. On a personal note, I've always been a huge fan of Michael Kain since I was a young and up and coming actor, especially after watching his famous video Acting in Film, which was a staple in acting courses. I remember watching that at the University of Miami It's a great video if you want a quick lesson on how to act on camera, very different from acting in the theater. It's a very practical lesson and he's brilliant in it. You can see his technique shine through then and in any movie he's in, including this one, of course.

3:54 Michael Kain was born as Maurice Joseph Mikelwhite in London. He stands pretty tall at six foot two. Michael Kaine's been nominated for an Oscar six times. He won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor twice for Hannah and her Sisters in eighty six and The Cider House Rules in ninety nine. His career dates back to the fifties, but he makes a splash with Zulu in sixty four. He was nominated for Alfie in sixty six. He does a bunch of work then and here comes the eighty snapshot. He does Dressed to Kill an eighty Victory in eighty one, death Trap in eighty two, Bill we got to do that one, yes, death Trap. Christpher reed educating Rita in eighty three, Blame It on Rio in eighty four, Hannah and Her Sisters eighty six, Jaws The Revenge the Best movie Ever in eighty seven, and then he does a couple episodes of a TV mini series called Jack the Ripper in eighty eight, This Dirty Rotten Scoundrels also in eighty eight. His trademarks, of course, are his Cockney accent.

4:47 He often plays mentors the younger characters. Now frequently works with Christopher Nolan. We do love him as Alfred in Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy. Of course, a little trivia once he said that he knew he had made it as an actor when he starts getting scripts to read that no longer had coffee stains already on them, meaning that he was the first choice for the role when he was still a struggling actor in London and rooming with Terrence Stamp. Cain's barber was future hairstylist and guru Vidal Sassoon. And here's a quick quote. This is a famous one if you're familiar with any of the behind the scenes stuff from Jaws The Revenge. Here's his quote he says about the movie. He says, I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific, Michael Kaine.

5:33 I always love that quote. It's great, it's so honest. What do you got for your eighties snapshot? Bill bant So I went with producer Bernard Williams, who was known for his work on a range of acclaimed films, including collaborations with director Stanley Kubrick and Frank Oz. Born in London, Williams began his career in the film industry as a teenager, starting in the mailroom at Associated British Pictures in the early sixties. He served as second and third assistant dire director to two notable films Today The Earth Caught Fire in nineteen sixty one and Bunny Lake Is Missing from sixty five, directed by Auto Preminger. He also worked as a production manager on the influential British television series The Prisoner. Williams went on to collaborate with Stanley Krubrick as associate producer on two of the director's most iconic films, Blockwork Aren't from nineteen seventy one and Barry London from nineteen seventy five. His long standing partnership with director Frank Oz began with Dirty Rotten Scandals and continued through a series of successful films, What About Bob in ninety one, House Sitter in ninety two, The Indian and the Cupboard in ninety five, Both Finger in ninety nine, and The Score in two thousand and one. Beyond these collaborations, Williams produced a diverse array of films, including Flash Gordon from nineteen eighty, Ragtime nineteen eighty one, The Bounty in eighty four, and Manhunter in nineteen eighty six. Williams passed away in twenty fifteen at the age of seventy two.

7:02 Wow, quite the resume. The very cool. I enjoyed that. Yeah. I thought it was a bit unusual because when we talk about these movies, the producer is typically a studio. So when I saw it was just a person, I was like, who is this guy? Then I did a deep dive and realized, Wow, he's actually done some impressive work. Yeah, big time. I figured it was worth sharing. Okay, so this leads us to earliest memories? What are your earliest memories from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels? Jason stars Off. I don't recall seeing this film in the theater, nor did I have any recollection of who I was with or where I was exactly when I first saw it. I just know the feeling it gives me when I hear the title mentioned, and for me, it's all feel good nostalgia. I recall seeing the trailer on television, finding it amusing, and I recall that the film, you know, I thought it was just really light on its feet, great entertainment with great performances that made me laugh out loud.

8:00 I always recall watching Steve Martin and enjoying him thoroughly, always been a fan. What he does best in this film, it's the combination of his physical comedy with brilliantly delivered timing. And here's the thing. For me, he just exudes such a likability. There's something there's a warmth about Steve Martin that I've always been attracted to. So I recall that, and over the years, I mentioned this briefly. You know, I've had a huge appreciation for Michael Kain, but I recall really enjoying his performance in this comedy, which I wasn't familiar. You know, you think Michael Caine, you think a little bit more serious actory performances, if that makes sense, And that's what I recall. So he was well regarded as a serious actor at the time, but yeah, he shows up big time in this as more of the straight man, but has some great comedic moments. I do remember enjoying the so called twist at the end spoiler alert, sort of gosh, this is for sure. I do remember thinking that Glenn Headley in the role of Janet Colgate was very cute. I always found her. There's just something about her I found very attractive when I was younger, still do to this day. So yeah, I could go through all the scenes which I recall being funny. There are standout moments, but I'm gonna pulled off because I think we'll talk about some of those in our favorite scenes and moments coming up. I've always liked movies about con artists. I just really enjoyed the silliness of this film as a kid. I remember it being a little over the top in moments. I enjoyed the sort of

9:33 the back and forth tennis match, if you will, between Michael Caine and Steve Martin's characters. It's just watching this game of who's gonna out con the other person or outsmart the other person, out play the other person, and out maneuver them. It's like, you know what I thought of this is this is probably was why I was attracted to con artists movies as a kid. It's like their magicians and you're just trying to figure out their secrets, how they're gonna pull it off, and how they managed to do it. And there are a sort of actors themselves, right, I mean, their performance artists themselves being connors. So I was always attracted to that as a kid, and it's one of the reasons why I like this movie as a kid. So those are my earliest memories. Just always thought this movie was fun, and so I watched it more than a few times when I was younger. What are your earliest memories of DRS.

10:18 Yeah, for me, it was the trail that hooked me right away. That scene, it's not even in the actual movie, where Steve Martin pushes the woman into the canal or river made me laugh out loud. I saw that and thought I have to watch this. Then later, while doing some research on the film, I realized I had never even noticed the moment where Michael Caine shots Cotton Candy and that kid's face, probably because I was so focused on Steve Martin. Pushing the woman into the water. And then there's that scene where Steve Martin plays ruprict sitting at the table with the eye patch, and he says, may I go to the bathroom? Leave? It just sits there that whole moment, I mean dying, and you're thinking, my god, what is going on with this movie? It came out around Christmas during the school year, and so there was no way I was going to see in the theaters. It was definitely a rental. Honestly, when I first watched it, I wasn't that into it.

11:12 I mean, I liked the ending, the twist was pretty cool, but overall it just didn't fully land for me. I never really watched it again after that. I thought, Okay, that was interesting, but it didn't leave a strong impression. Still, I've always been curious about revisiting it, like, would I appreciate it more now? Maybe I'd end up loving it, or maybe I'd still feel the same. That curiosity is one of the main reasons I wanted to get this movie on the schedule, because I haven't really gone back to it since the eighties. I might have caught a clip here or there, but that's it. I think part of it was that the trailer just set my expectations so high, right, and I didn't feel like the movie paid off. Yeah, and then the fact that the scene for the trailer wasn't even the movie. I get why the context of the film, it probably wouldn't have worked.

12:03 The characters are constantly at odds, but in that trailer moment they come across more like buddies, which doesn't really fit their dynamic. So in a way, I'm actually glad it wasn't included in the film, but still it hooked me. The trailer did this job, it just didn't deliver the kind of payoff I was hoping for. That totally makes sense, and I'm glad you brought up the trailer. That is definitely an early memory of mine, as I mentioned, because it is so funny and it's unexpected you when you first see it. Of course, and you are absolutely right that scene would not work within the context of the film, because in just such a small amount of time within that trailer, that scene does portray them as more there's more camaraderie there. Maybe, yeah, it's very subtle, but you can feel like, as in their partner, they're not just partners, but maybe there's an underlying friendship as well, which is not really what occurs in this.

12:57 Film, right, And Michael Kaine's character Laurence has a code about who he cons and he definite wouldn't shove cotton candy and some kid's face. That kind of behaviors totally have a character for him. Great point. Yeah, yeah, that's outside of his boundaries for him. Yeah, all right, let's move on to initial thoughts. Jason, what are your initial thoughts about dirty rotten Scoundrels? You know what, I will just spoil it right now. I felt fantastic. I had a great time. I laughed out loud several times watching this. I was really, really pleasantly surprised. I expected to like it. I've always had an affinity for it, but I was surprised at how many times I actually like burst out laughing in moments.

13:41 So I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoy this. It's just kind of a fun romp and I'll get into it now. And I just watched the opening credits bill and it's just been a you know, man, in the eighties, remember when we had to sit through credits from the beginning of the film and this is just one of those like nothing's happening, it's just credits over. I guess it's is it the French Riviera? You're just seeing the water in the background. And let me ask you a quick question. Did you think that was the real, actual French Riviera or was it a model? I couldn't tell. That's a great question, and I thought of that myself. I couldn't tell either if it was real or not. It was a pretty setting, but it could. Yeah, there was something about it that felt.

14:24 But I know they filmed it out there, right, Yeah. But that particular still shot, although you can see the water moving, it feels like a model a little bit. There's something plastic about it or something. I don't know what it is, but you're right, it's an interesting observation. Yeah, it's just the way it's slit it makes it look fake. Yeah, it's kind of It's a little strange. But we said through the credits it's still fun because there was a little bit of a cold open there, which we'll get into because that leads into my first favorite scene. But I forgot or just didn't realize Bill that this movie was indeed directed by Frank Oz the great Frank Oz the Wizard of Oz, because not only, of course, was he famously the voice of Yoda, but he acted and directed as well. This is one talented guy and I just wanted to give him a shout out because man, you mentioned the producer here and working with Frank Oz.

15:15 But yeah, he directed films like The Dark Crystal, Little Shop of Horrors, The Muppets Take Manhattan, what about Bob the Score, Bowfinger. These are great movies. When he shows up, does like cameos and other films you know, or like It's The Blues Brothers or something like that. You're just happy to see him, just like, that's freaking Frank Oz. What a great dude. It's just one of those guys you know, you'd just like to have a conversation with whatever it is, just to pick his brain about all of his experiences, his stories and doing so many things, wearing so many hats over the years. So I mentioned, yes, I still think this movie holds up. I still think the humor for me, the style of humor in this works for me today. And a big part of why it works for me is the casting. I love the casting of this. I think it's spot on all around.

16:00 We don't have a lot of protagonists in this, only three real main protagonists, and then you have is It Inspector Andre who is kind of a supporting role throughout. But let's start with Steve Martin. I believe he's at his best in this. Like I said, made me laugh out loud multiple times during the rewatch, his over the top goofiness, his physicality, the facial expressions throughout he's delivering a speech during a con and he does all of these things to just con these women throughout, to either seduce them or have them sympathize with him and draw out their empathy. And it's ridiculous. But like I said, he's so likable that you can't keep your eyes off of him. He's doing so much with his face and his voice all the time. So really appreciate Steve Martin.

16:52 It's something about his style of humor, because he's obviously so eccentric and theatrical and big and over the top, but he makes it so fun and charming at the same time. He can be a relatable every man and a leading man at the same time. He just pulls that magic off that I appreciate. Michael Caine, what can you say, consummate professional actor And if you didn't think he could do comedy, you got to watch this. He plays the straight man to a tee, but he also has his own laugh out loud moments which I really appreciated. I like their chemistry in this. Steve Martin Michael Caine, I think have great chemistry. They play off each other brilliantly. I think they're really perfect for the roles. Caine playing the role of Lawrence Jamison, this British and well established and well polished professional con man who's working out of the small town of Beaumont sour Meer in the French rivier when he stumbles onto the less polished and very crude American con man and Steve Martin playing the role of Freddie Benson. So you got Lawrence and Freddy. And when Freddy infringes upon Lawrence's territory here in the south of France, they go head to head and competing for taking money from wealthy corrupt women. And then finally Martin says he wants to learn from Cain the season pro, but Caine takes him under his wing, only to beat him down and try to drive him out and then it ends up in this Gentleman's Bet, and that's when Glenn Headley's character Janet Colegate comes into the frame and Glenn Headley as Janet Colegate sneaky sexy in this. For me, Bill Bant, this is an actress I've always liked, but to be honest, I looked at her IMDb. I've seen her in a few things, namely Dick Tracy's That's the

18:24 other one I really remember her from, but not much else. I've seen this film multiple times. I do know the twist, and I was paying close attention to her in particular on this rewatch. And I still think she's a natural. I don't think she really gives anything away. She's my type in a way. She can be that cute female next door or play like a sexy synuttress if she wanted to. She can do both. I don't know. Did you have any thoughts about either Martin Kine or Glenn Headley. For me, Headley was the highlight of the movie. The movie doesn't get interesting until she is in it. There you go. It's funny because we have a really opposite take on this rewatch. That's great. I love that and make I totally I get that. I totally get that.

19:05 Yeah, and then after listening to you, I think my issue with it was I don't think I like Steve Martin being an asshole. Ah okay, it doesn't do it for me. I kept trying to figure out while watching it, why am I not enjoying this? And then while you were talking, it hit me, I don't like Steve Martin when he's playing an asshole. I like what he's lovable, I don't like his character. That totally tracks also makes sense, and I think why I appreciate him so much is that I still found him likable even though he is playing a jerk no pun intended. I totally get it. For me. The standout this time was actually Michael Kaine, because I just think he's he's so controlled the untire and he just puts on a masterclass performance. And I'll bring up a couple of his moments later on. I thought he looked really sharp in this. I was like, Wow, Michael Kine obviously a little bit younger at this time. And then I found in the trivia and this is stepping on some trivia.

20:02 They use a lot of skin tightening makeup on him to make him look younger, to make him look closer in age to Steve Martin. Right, hell of a job. Yeah, probably threw a little preparation h on that face to tighten it up. Yeah, it worked because he looked fantastic. Hey, Bill, it's great to see Emperor Palpatine in this What is he doing here? He has a great line in this one. Yeah. Ian McDermott, the great Ian McDermott that plays the role of Arthur the Butler, Lawrence's butler in this movie. Now I see how I became so evil. Mm mmm hmm. I think he's a bit underused, in my opinion, in this film, but it's still great to see him pop up. Agreed. I thought the film was quite well directed. Speaking Frank Oz, it's not rocket science, it's it's just smart enough. There are definitely a lot of coincidences that happen in the crossing of paths in this movie. It's a lot of just go with it here. It's almost on a level farcicle.

20:53 Yeah, I thought there was too much. Yeah, I could see why you would think that he popped out a little bit more. This time watching it, I was like, Wow, a lot of convenient events happened throughout, but that is the movie. I forgive it because I think that is clearly the tone from the beginning, so sort of that revolving doors effect. It may be a requirement that you just go with it if you're going to enjoy this movie. This is an interesting question I thought of Bill Bannon if this movie were to come out today, because we're so over analytical now, especially as adults watching these movies. We've seen so much at this point. Let's say, if this movie just came out brand new today, do you think we would see the twist coming?

21:35 Depends on how I would have to rewrite it. I would always have to rewrite it that they're targeting her from the get go and then not realizing till the end that she's actually conning them instead, And I think that would work better for me. Right. Yeah. I had never heard of the original movie, The Bedtime Story, and I tried to find it, and of course I could not. Because I wouldn't be surprised if this was well. It was actually rebooted not too long ago, right with Anne Hathaway and Rebel Wilts. Oh yeah, they did that reboot with the Ladies version. And I remember that one. Yeah, it just makes me think of the fact that, you know, movies have been around so long now, we've seen so many ideas play out in so many different ways, and we're accustomed so many different endings, and it all becomes predictable after a while. So I was just wondering if this movie could be done in a way where you just wouldn't see it coming at the end, just a thought I had. So finally, Yeah, I really enjoy this.

22:28 It's got twists and turns all along the way. Love the cons I forgive the conveniences and me over the top ridiculousness, but the performances are really fun. I really had some really like gut busting, you know, laugh out loud moments. And I think we may have the opposite view on this bill because I felt the first half was a lot more fun and it slowed down a little bit in the second half. For me. Maybe that's just because I knew what was coming, but that's just my take. Yeah, I was the exact composite that opening scene with that bad overdubbing, with the conversation between Kin as Lawrence and that woman as she's trying to give him her pearls to help with the freedom fighters.

23:09 The cold open you're talking about. Yeah, you don't see their faces. You just see that. You hear the voices and the transaction. Yeah, I'm like, why why are they filming it this way? I know who it is. I know it's Michaelcaine. You can distinctly tell it's Michael Kain. Why can I not see his face? Why is Frank Oz filming it this way? It kind of threw me off a little bit. And then we see our first con and we meet Steve Martin, and then we have this whole thing, all right, I'll teach Steve Martin how to be a better con man, and they go through this whole thing where he's shown how to be a sophisticated con and then they do the initial con, which it took me a little while to figure it out, and Steve Martin is just playing a dumb character. Again. Wait, Lawrence spent all this time teaching him how to be a sophisticated con artist. They're not even using it.

24:01 That's a great point. That's a great complaint. I can't disagree with that. So the movie doesn't take off until they decide, all right, we've had enough of each other. Let's make a bet. Let's see who can con someone out of fifty thousand dollars. And Glenn Headley appears in the movie. And then that's for me what I'm like, Okay, this is getting interesting now because it's let's see what technique is the best. And when Steve Martin pulls up in the wheelchair in the military outfit, I had a chuckle and right from there that's when I started enjoying the movie. I just like the second half. For me. The first half is a slog and as much as I think the Rubric character is funny, it's a little too over the top. Okay, yeah, a little idiotic for me, And you know I don't like idiotic comedy, so it doesn't work. I most kind of wish they work together more, or just did the bet for the get Go and then the whole movie they're just trying to con Janet fair enough.

25:05 Agree to disagree, I respect your opinion. Likewise, if we had to watch this, you could sit and watch the first half and then you could tag me and I'll watch the second half for you. There we go, all right, So let's move on to our favorite scenes or moments. What are some favorite scenes or moments? We have them dirty rotten scoundrels. So I guess Jason's going to take the first half of the movie and I'm pretty much going to take care of the second. Half, right, Yeah, it just plays out that way. So I will start, as I often do from the beginning. In this first scene, I'm just calling Lawrence CON's Franny. We do have that brief cold open setup before the credits bill kind of went through it. We don't see Cain's face, but we understand he's playing this quote unquote exiled prince. Yeah, and he's accepting charity from a rich woman in order to fund his freedom fighters, which of course is all a ruse. This is part of his con.

26:01 This is kind of this character he's playing within the film, within the fiction. So cut to after the credits. Michael Cain as Lawrence Jamison is now in this fancy casino and we know this is the Sounds of France. He's standing aside the action and he's just looking on in his friend, this gentleman Andre, who comes up to inform him that a rich, married and corruptible blonde is sitting at the roulette table and Cain turns around. We actually see his face then here for the first time, and he says perfect, and we know now that the blonde will be his mark. So he goes over to the roulette table, sits next to the blonde played by Barbara Harris, and he bets what she bets on the same number whatever it is there on the roulette table, and they end up losing the bet, and it seems as though he is upset now and he takes off one of his rings and he asks Andre if he can see how much he can get for it. Obviously he's playing it if he's out of money and he's desperate, and his friend Andre says, no, no, not the royal ring, your highness, Because then Michael Kaine is like, sh don't make it too obvious. But of course the blonde overhears this, and after Cain leaves the table and goes out to the veranda, the blonde chases him and she sees Andre standing there. And I love this because we see Michael Cain standing by the railing looking up into the moonlight, just kind of in a way upset, but just kind of looking up word longingly. But she runs into Andre first here out in the veranda, and tries to bribe

27:33 him so she can get close to this prince. And Andre says, forget the very existence of that brilliant, extraordinary man of destiny. He's just making up all this stuff. It is great just to really play up the character of this prince that Lawrence is playing. So we do know that Andre heres. He's the police chief of Beaumont, Sir mayor, this small town in south France. And like I said, we see Cain standing off solitari Harry looking up into the moonlight, and she approaches your highness, and we learned she is Franny Eubanks of Omaha. She says she overheard that he's in trouble, and he immediately Michael Kane asks her if she's one of his subjects, which just cracks me up. He says that she's already risking too much just by speaking to him, but she insists on helping this prince. And there's a running gag here where either Michael Caine or his friend Andre keep pushing Franny into these tall bushes or tall plants on the patio, as if it would somehow provide cover for them, and they could speak in secrecy, but it does nothing except put leaves in her face, and it's really funny to me.

28:37 So Caan explains that he's got powerful enemies and they may be watching, and in mind settence, he stops and just looks at her and says, my god, you're attractive. It's his delivery. It's ridiculous, but it's really funny to me. And suddenly he looks up at the moon and says, it's late. I must go. He climbs up onto the railing of this casito patio, it just jumps off, disappearing in the bushes. And it's supposed to be this kind of romantic, adventurous moment as he just disappears into the night. And then Andre reappears on the patio with Franny and asks if the Prince has gone, and she already quite taken with Michael Kain, insists that Andre tell her where Cain lives, and Andre pushes her again into one of the plants to have a secret conversation. Andre says, there may also be an emotional risk. You see, the Prince has been a widower for five years, so he's just laying all the foundation to get hurt kind of seduce her for Michael Kine. Now Franny really sees her opening and it cuts to a bedroom of course, with both Michael Cain and Franny in it, and she's giving him her jewels to support his so called freedom fighters. So it's over the top, it's melodramatic, it's funny. It sets the tone and here we're off. It does establish Michael Kaine's character as Lawrence Jamison, this professional con man playing the role of this deposed prince, and he has not establishes that he has an accomplice in an inspector Andre and that they're conning rich women in the south of France.

30:04 And I enjoy this kind of farcicle, over the top type of comedy. It's just something that plays into my sensibility. So I found that opening scene pretty funny. What I do like about the con is when Michael Kaine's character, Lawrence comes over and sits down at the roulette table and waits for Fanny to make a bet, and then he puts his chips on the same number, and I was like, all right, that's good. I like that kind of smooth. It's a nice move to draw attention to himself and almost immediately ingratiate himself. And we talked about this before and I couldn't believe how much Barbara Harris, who plays Fanny, reminds me of a poor woman's Madaline con. You can't help me make it.

30:44 I don't know if she was still alive then, but yeah, I was like, she should have had that role. Yeah, yeah, but then you would have to give her a bigger part. And of course because it's Madeline Cohn. So I guess we're rolling right into my next scene. Then, yeah, Jason, keep going next favorites for me? All right, this is rueprecked. Got to talk about Rutepreck banging the pot. So at this point, Michael Kain has taken Steve Martin under his wing. He's trained him as a more slick con man. And to Bill's credit, he does not play a slick con in the Seed at all, not a professional, classy, polished con man. Instead, he's taking on quite a wild character. But we do know that Michael Kain has mentored him in the ways of class and elegance and more refined approach to being confidence man.

31:31 And now they are part nerving up to con these rich women. So the setup is that Michael Kaine is Lawrence plays his role as the exiled prince and he cons these women out of their riches, but the women tend to get attached to him, so he has to find a way to get rid of them. So they come up with the premise that Lawrence has a brother named Ruprect, who is actually Freddie Benson played by Steve Martin, and supposedly Ruprecked, his younger brother travels everywhere with him, and let's just Rueprect has issues and he's kept locked up in this basement room at Michael Kaye's villa, and he's clearly a bit mentally challenged, and he's prone to physical and verbal obnoxious outbursts and also harming himself. So Lawrence brings this woman from Oklahoma that he has conned down to the basement to introduce her to Ruprect, and this is going to be his way of getting rid of this woman's you see. So we see as they enter into this locked room, we see Martin sitting on a bed, just having been banging on a pot, just randomly.

32:37 It's just really right. And Martin's sitting on this bed and we can immediately see he's basically acting like a child. He's wearing this brown suit jacket and pants that are a little too small. He's got a bow tie on, his hair is slicked back, and immediately Michael Kane goes over to him and says, cudley, cudly to hug him. And we're like, oh, okay, he's very much has the mind of a child, this Ruepreck character. And Ruprect hugs Lawrence and drags him down onto the bed and rolls around, and of course Michael Kain has to push him off. And this woman is looking on and she's just innocent to this. She's just so confused thinking she is about to engage this romance with this prince and here she's being introduced to this ridiculous brother of his, and she's watching the whole thing play out in this room. It's great.

33:19 Not only is there a bed and there's like a kitchen with the pots and pans and such, but there's a toilet just sitting there out in the open. And that's when now Michael Kain introduces Ruprect officially to this woman from Oklahoma. And what does Steve Martin say here? As Ruprect to this woman Molu as sumes that this woman is his mother Mulu, No, not mother, but this is Miss Trumble from Oklahoma, and Michael Kaine says that Miss Trumble and I are to be married and we're going to live in Oklahoma. And this does not please Ruprect, who is clearly very attached to his brother and possessive of his brother. Ruprec starts knocking vases off of a shelf, breaking them one by one. Kane admonishes him and says stop it, which he does, and says, what did we do when you acted out the last time when Uncle Ted was here? And immediately Ruprec puts on a rubber glove and starts putting lotion on it, which is really gross but funny at the same time. It's really disturbing, but it's got funny to me. Michael Kaine says, no, no, no, no, not that we apologize. So Ruprect goes over to this woman, gives her a really awkward hug and gets a little too grabby and almost drags her to the ground, basically does tackle her, drags her to the ground, and Cain yells at him says, ruprecked, do you want the genital cuff? Oh?

34:35 My god, so it's really disturbing. So he pulls off that the woman. He gets off of her, and Michael Kaine goes over to Steve Martin's ruepractice says, don't worry, we won't go anywhere without you, and that, of course is all for the woman to hear it. So she's freaked out, thinking, oh my god, this crazy brother of Michael Kain's is now going to be part of our family, traveling with us whatever it is. And she's not having it. But Ruprec's all excited and starts banging the pot again with a spoon, repeating Oklahoma, Oklahoma, Oh, Oklahoma, Oklahoma, just over and over again. Lawrence says to the woman, Miss Trumble, He's gonna love Oklahoma's wide open spaces. He loves to run and run and run right, and Miss Trumble is just looking on in horror, so we know that, of course Miss Trumble's not going to have any of it, and thus this part of the con will work and Michael Kine will get rid of her and they'll move on to the next woman. It's one of the memorable scenes, no question, from this movie, because Steve Martin is so over the top and ridiculous, And now after your commentary, Bill Bann, I do agree with you. It doesn't quite make sense after he'd gone through all the training to be this polished con man that now he's been reduced to this goofy brother. But I think part of the point of that is that Michael Kaine's making him do this in order to get him to leave. He wants him to leave, he doesn't. He's kind of like playing this idiot brother who's subservient and kind of below Lawrence, and eventually, hopefully Steve Martin would get sick of doing that and then just be done and leave. And that's

36:07 really what Michael Kaine's objective is here. He never really wanted Steve Martin to be his partner. I think that's part of what's happening here. But I do agree with you. It's kind of like we watched him go through all the training and then now he's just reduced to playing this rup wreck character. But regardless, this scene to me is hilarious. Steve Martin really going for it, really going for it. It still made me laugh out loud. I didn't know if I would enjoy this scene again because it is so ridiculous. But I really admire Steve Martin for not holding back. He lets go completely. So maybe it's just the actor in me that respects him for that in this scene, and he's doing that voice so that Bill Bant is doing the perfect impersonation of thank you, which is just part of it. So I do like this scene a lot.

36:53 Thinking about that scene, I think if I was on set and I'm directing it and I'm basically telling Steve Martin just to go oh, I think I would have actually found it funnier watching it live and seeing how Michael Kane and Megan Fay, who's playing this trumbull try not to break character, watching Martin Dowis thing that would be hilarious. But like I said, it's a ridiculous character. To me, it's almost too unbelievable. I don't think I would believe it, right. Yeah, And is Michael Kain still playing the Prince? Because you said that he is still playing the prince character in this con. I didn't pick up on that, and that's why I was kind of like, all right to totally shift gears with this new con.

37:39 And how does this start? How is he getting these women so he's still under the pretense that he's a prince. That's what I thought. But now that you say that, I could be wrong. Regardless, I mean, he's conning rich supposedly, he's he finds the rich corrupt women, that's his code, and he cons them out of their jewelry and riches and money and so. But of course because he seduces them along the Cohn, they become attached to them and to him, and of course he can't have that. He has to get rid of them, thus introducing them to ruprect and then they get upset and leave. So I still thought like that was just his thing, like he just continually. But if he's supposed to be this exiled prince, I guess he wouldn't be engaging in a long term relationship with women. He would be more undercover and covert.

38:29 So maybe he's not playing the prince. I could be wrong. I don't know. Is he who do you think he is? Then? Is he just. Supposed to be? I'm wondering if he's doing a whole different character. But then I'm trying to figure out how he's getting the women. So what's the new con then, right, because how's he getting the women's money and then kicking them to the curb. So I started overthinking it, and that's when I was saying to myself, this isn't working for me. Right, understood, Okay, fair enough. I was too busy doing a deep dive. I should have just been watching what's on the surface and just went that route. Well, see, that's that's the thing, and that's where we're I think telling our listeners here is that if you do think about it too much, it's gonna it's gonna fall apart right a little bit. Because if that did definitely cross my mind, I was like, wait, okay, so he's still doing the same con. That's his con, that's his hick. That's all that Michael Kaine will do. We see then he takes on a different character in the second half, but I thought this is his main, main con that he runs as this exile prince.

39:34 But anyway, right, because if his whole goal is okay, I'm going to teach Freddy so he doesn't rat me out, and now I'm going to use him to my advantage. Right, I want to know what the con is, sure, I want to know what the full con is, or at least get explained to me at some point. So then I understand, and I'm just kind of watching the end result. Yeah, I want to see the process, like you correct, right, I like seeing the whole process, and here I'm only getting the end process, the end result. All right. Well again, some of this you just gotta go with. It either works for you or it doesn't.

40:18 So I'm gonna keep. Going, Pat, Jason, keep going, still on you. Here's my last final favorite scene. I call it Freddy explains his trauma to Janet. All right, So now we're into the beginning of the second half, if you will, of the movie, where Janet Colgate has appeared on the scene. She's been labeled the soap queen. I'll admit I had some confusion about which I'll bring up I think a little bit later. But we find out that she's one kind of competition, a detergent. It was having to do with detergent that she either bought and she entered this competition and she won, and she won this trip to the south of France with all the amenities. And she has now become the mark for both Freddie Benson and Lawrence Jamison because Lawrence and Freddy have made a gentleman's bet that because they both agree that they can't coexist in the South of France doing their cons so they're going to see who's will be the first to con this particular woman out of fifty thousand dollars, and whomever wins gets to stay and the loser has to leave leave the South of France permanently. So that's the bet, and they happen upon Janet Colgate, who looks like the perfect mark. So that's the setup there, and now the action starts once again at the roulette table, which I liked is kind of a callback to the opening scene with Fanny. And at the roulette table we see Janet playing roulette, and now Kin is about to engage his usual con as you know, as we saw play out

41:49 in the beginning, and places his bet alongside Janet. But then who interrupts this scenario that Kin is trying to engage in Freddy of course, and he rolls up to the roulette table in a wheelchair and he's wearing a naval uniform, so he's playing a navy officer who is paralyzed from the waist down and when he comes through the crowd, he's already bumping into people, and then it comes up to the table and bumps into the table and he places his bet alongside Janet and he loses, and then he tries to pawn off one of his medals from his jacket and they won't accept it as collateral, so he leaves dejected. It is absolutely hilarious to me because not then he's got to turn his wheelchair around and leave the table, and he bangs into Michael Kaine's chair like five times in a row, and it just never gets old for me. I was laughing out loud because you can see in Michael Kaine's performance, like I mentioned, he's so controlled and understated that he's still he's already frustrated that Freddy has interrupted his con at this point, and now that on top of it, it's pouring salt in the wound because Freddy keeps banging into his chair with his wheelchair. So Freddie wheels out of the casino.

43:13 Janet witnesses this and just is immediately so sympathetic towards him. He just runs after him. But Janet is following Freddy in the wheelchair. Freddie gives her this spiel about having to pay for an operation for his grandmother, and that's been his con throughout the film, so we recognize that and she immediately falls for it and gives him ten thousand francs, which is two thousand dollars for his grandmother's operation that she needs. But we know that Freddy's got to get fifty thousand dollars out of her two thousand's not going to do it, so it's like, what's the play here. Well, it turns out that she plays right into his hand because now they're sitting at a table enjoying a drink, and she asks if an operation would help him with his physical disability, and he goes on to say his ailment isn't physical, that it's emotional, that he's on six weeks MTL Mental Trauma ly from the Navy, and then he goes into this story and this is just my favorite because this is his SOB story, his con.

44:19 He says, I was engaged to a girl back in the States, and we love to dance. We wanted to be professionals, isn't that silly? And we got an opportunity to compete on TV on Dance USA, so we agreed that if we won, we get married. So we went on and we danced and we won. Janet says, that's great, and he goes on and says, and in the excitement, we got separated. So I went back to the studio and there there they were naked dancing, and then they stopped and they made love right there on the floor, and Jenn's like, who was she with? Freddy says, Danny Terrio flows to dance USA and he goes out to say that then after this woman that he had fallen in love with was about to marry, cheated on him right and there next morning he woke up and his legs were useless, he couldn't walk. So he's supposedly suffering for this like psycholic somatic sort of paralyzing thing. And she says, there must be someone who can help him with this mental issue, this mental block and emotional problem that he has. And he says, there is a psychiatrist named doctor Emil Schuffausen of the Schufausen Clinic in Liechtenstein.

45:24 But of course, how much would it cost to get doctor Emil Schufausen's help exactly fifty thousand dollars And she says, yeah, that's a lot of money, and then Freddy looks off and he sees a couple dancing romantically on the floor in the background, and he loses it. They're dancing, Oh god, oh no, and she has to wheel him out of the restaurant and he's just losing it and just overly emotional, and she says she's going to write to doctor Schufausen right away on his behalf. And what's great here is that we see off to the side that Inspector Andre has been there the whole time, eavesdropping and taking notes. He was listening to the conversation, so he heard what Steve Martin's Cohn was going to be, and then of course we know he's going to feed that information to Lawrence Michael Kaine's character, and Michael Kaine will use that, but Steve Martin just really playing it up, and that's ridiculous story. I like Glenn Headley's performance in the scene because she's so kind of like, oh wow, listening to it and really playing it as if she's really sympathizing with him, and it just has a really genuine natural response.

46:27 So I appreciate that. And Steve Martin's facial expressions, his physicality using the wheelchair to get that sympathy. Really funny stuff, So makes me laugh at that every time. Yeah, I forgot watching this what his play was going to be to try to get the money and what he showed up the wheelchair to make me chuckle. And what I do like about the second half of the film is every time you think one of the two has the upper hand, the other one figures out another way to get back in. Right, they weasel their way in. Yeah, Lawrence is doing his casino bit, and then here comes Steve Martin is Freddy and literally puts himself in between Janet and Lawrence, and Lawrence can't do anything about it because it's going to make him look like an asshole.

47:14 And then he has no chance, so he's got to play along. Right. So it's just stuff that happens throughout the second half of the movie that made me smile. It's like, Okay, this is clever. I like Kelly did that. Well we can agree on that. Yeah, we're on the same page or something there. All right, So finally I get to talk about some of my favorite scenes because, like I said, I like the second half of the movie. Second half of the movie works for me. So Freddie tells Janet the story and she says she's going to write a letter to doctor Emil. So she goes down to the lobby to Mallet, and all of a sudden she hears someone paging doctor Emil Cholfausen, Cholfausen.

47:56 She's like, he's actually here, and doctor Emil, of course is played by Michael Kine and he's taken on the character and she explains what's going on, and he tells her he's on vacation. I really shouldn't take the case, but she begs him, please, please please, and doctor Emil, okay, let me look at him. So they go back up to Janet's room. Or Steve Martin's all excited because thinks he's gonna win this bet, and Janet calls for him. Martin jumps back into the wheelchair wheels out, and Janet's like, got a big surprise for you. Never gonna believe who I met. Freddy has no idea because he's made up the psychiatrist doctor Emil, And sure enough, Janet opens the door and there's Michael Kaine saying that he's doctor Emil, and Steve Martin can't say anything because he knows that he's going to have to give up his con also, so Lawrence knows he's got Freddy by the balls and he's gonna play with him a little bit, and he wants to do a quick examination of Freddy, and he takes off freddy shoes and tries to tickle his feet, and he says to Freddie, do you feel anything? And Freddie, Steve Martin is able to withstand the tickle. He goes, no, no, not a thing. Okay, let's try something else. Doctor Emil grabs basically a rod, almost like a bamboo stick and smacks Steve Martin Freddie in the leg and hell, yeah, that would be pretty painful. And somehow Freddy is able to withstand the smack, but you can see it all

49:28 on his face. It hurts, and unfortunately I can't visually express that. And Lawrence asked him, did you feel that? And Freddie's response says no, no, no, So Lawrence tries again, hits him a little bit harder. Freddie still responds doesn't feel anything. That Lawrence goes across to the other side of the suite and with a running start, runs at Freddy and wraps him across the legs, Oh my god, I can only imagine how paper that would be. And then he asks Freddy, did you feel that? And Freddie is doing everything he can not to give away the can. He's got his fingers pressed against his forehead and he's just acting like he's thinking about it, and he just keeps saying nope, nope, not at all. And at that point, Lawrence doctor Emil, decides that he will take him on as a patient and that they'll bring him to his house and they will do further research. And at that point Freddy knows he is screwed and gets another wrap by Lawrence, and we have a close up of Freddy's face and tears are just running down it, and Janek's all excited. She's thinking, Freddy, he's so happy. He's crying, and of course we as the audience know they're tears of pain and not tears of joy. And now Freddie needs to figure out how he's going to get out of this one, because he definitely knows that Lawrence has the upper hand. So this, for me, is the funniest scene of the movie. This scene may crack up because I have no idea how you would stand that pain.

50:58 I can only imagine how much that would hurt as one tough con artist. To me, Yeah, this is again one of the highlights of the film, and I was tempted to mention it in my earliest memories. I'm glad we're talking about it now. So the root precked banging on the pots and this particular scene with that flower rod that Kane is whipping him with, that are the most memorable scenes when I think of this movie, I think of those two scenes first off. And so I'm glad you broke this one down because it cracks me up. I remember how Michael Kane escalates the thrashing him with the rod, but I forgot the moment when he literally goes to the opposite side of the room and then gets a running start and jumps and then gives them a good whack. That cracked me up. What I really forgot, though, is then when he's like, oh no, I'll take him on as a patient, and as he's saying that, he just keeps whipping him. I just I can see it. Yeah, this is really a visual thing here, folks, So do yourself a favor. Look it up on YouTube or what to watch the scene because Steve Martin's facial expressions are priceless.

52:00 Like Bill said, when he puts his fingers to his head and he's just trying to he's soaking up and digesting the pain, trying not to cry out or yell out or give up that con and it's everything. It just takes everything he's got not to really burst. But the moment at the end when the tears are rolling is priceless. It's funny, it's. Great, Yeah, because there's no way most people could even withstand that first hit. You would jerk or shriek. And the fact that he doesn't move at all and it's just all in his face, that's funny. The looks on his face too, when he knows it's coming, because he knows Michaelcaine's really going to lay into him, so you know, he's just he's like, oh my god, I've really screwed myself.

52:43 Yeah. The fact his face doesn't express any kind of pain, that's pretty funny. Yeah, what's next, man? So next scene me again. Hey, we finally get Freddy to walk, and at this part of the movie, they've changed the bet, so instead of trying to get money, they're just trying to get Janet in bed, because Lawrence has found out that Janet doesn't really have the money that they thought. She's not really a hairess of the soap magnet. So whoever can get Janet into bed, that's the winner of the bet and the loser go home. At this point in the con they're just trying to somehow get an edge, and Lawrence takes jen out dancing, and Freddy is there and Freddie runs into some other officers, military officers, probably local I think their navy.

53:29 Yeah. Freddie tells these naval officers that's his ex girlfriend and now she's hooking up with this guy. And the naval officers are getting all upset and they say, we'll take care of him for you, and supposedly they grab Lawrence and ship him out of the country. Freddie thinks he's got his in. Lawrence is not around, so Freddy goes to Janet's room. It confesses that he loves Janet and if he knew that Janet loved him back, he might be able to walk. So Janet says, you know what, I do have feelings for you. I really do think I love you Freddie, and Freddie responds, you know, don't tease me, because if you do, I'm not going to be able to walk. And Janet responds, let's try and get up, and he gets Freddy to stand and there he is a standing and Freddie goes, all right, let me try to walk to you, and Jennit responds, okay, come to me, Come to me, and Freddie keeps going, well, go back, go back, go back, go back back, and he basically has Janet back up to the bed. So when he pretends he starts walking to her and he's all excited. He ends up landing on top of her, and this is the point where he thinks he's going to make love to her and win the bet. And all of a sudden we hear some clapping and behind the bedroom door there is Lawrence's doctor, Emil, and Janet says, wow, doctor, it's just like you said it was going to happen, And somehow here he is. Freddie thought he literally got rid of Lawrence. He got on a plane and was gone, and Lawrence was somehow able to make his way back.

55:01 And now Freddy has shown Janet that he could walk, and now Lawrence has the upper hand. So I thought that was funny because it was unexpected. You really thought it was Wow, Freddy's gonna somehow win the spet and pull it off, But no, that's not how it happened. And then you find out Lawrence is a Royal Navy Reserve officer or CON's the other naval officers in the thinking that's who he really was. Right, great stuff. I'm glad you brought this up because this rolls right into my three quick Michael Kaine moments from this film, because we know that at this point Michael Kain is playing doctor Emil Schufausen, that's his con and Freddie is playing himself as Freddie Benson, but as a paralyzed naval officer dealing with his psychosomatic trauma. And Michael Kaine's approach here with Janet is to convince her that he must be brutal with Freddy in order to get him to snap out of this emotional trauma. So he has to kind of mistreat him, which is part of the fun here, and Michael Kin gets a little bit of a thrill out of belittling and mistreating Steve Martin's character. So when they go to that dance club, Michael Kain's out there on the dance floor with Janet really doing it up right in front of Freddy as he's having to look on who's upset for a couple different reasons. And like you mentioned, behind Freddy sitting at the table or the few naval officers watching alongside, and they sympathize with Freddy, of course. But when Michael Caine

56:33 says to Janet, now come closer, would you mind now if he learns that he can deal with watching a couple on the dance floor being intimate, it'll be better for him to cope with this. Would it be all right if I kissed you? And so they kiss, and then there's this moment when Michael Kaine just turns his face and has this huge smile as he looks at Steve Martin because he literally is kind of owning the moment, not knowing that Stee Martin's got his own thing going on with the naval guys behind him. But that moment cracked me up. And then you mentioned that, of course the bet changes because they know. There's this great moment when supposedly doctor Emil Schufhausen, Michael Kaine is talking to Janet and realizes that yes, she's not an heiress. She actually just won this competition, and she's giving up all her belongings and selling everything off just to help Freddy.

57:24 And there's this scene, this moment when Michael Kaine looks at Janet and realizes she's a decent person and that he no longer can con her this way, and his eyes kind of get watery, like he just can't believe how good and decent she is. It's a wonderful acting moment because he's not saying anything, but you see it come over his face as if it's Wow, how refreshing is this. This is not a corrupt person. This is a genuinely good person. So that moment, and then there's a moment later on which maybe I'll get to good. I'll let you, I'll save that, I'll let you can. Yeah, I think just another element of the movie. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a scene. It's just really when we find out that Janet is cotting both Freddy and Lawrence, and she sees the two of them are working against each other, not together, and she's able to use that to her advantage by her then running to Lawrence and saying that they were going to make love and Freddy ended up running off with all our money and everything else she owned, and Lawrence feels so bad that he reimburses her the fifty thousand, not knowing that he's just really giving her fifty thousand dollars for nothing. And then he's so mad at Freddy he's going to have Freddy arrested.

58:38 And then Freddy's telling Lawrence, I didn't take anything from her. She actually took my stuff. And then they look in the bag that Lawrence thought he used to give Janet the fifty thousand dollars and ends up just being Freddy's clothes, and then we see the plane take off with Lawrence's money, and here's Freddy super pissed that he got conned and Lawrence this is exact opposite. He's really impressed. I really appreciated that, and I thought that was cool that it just shows once again the two of them are not on the same page, but this house, she was really able to play both of them the whole time. I thought it was cool. I totally agree. Love the twist. I love when she comes back in at the end and she has a brand new accent and character that is totally convincing. Yeah, and then she breaks that character to tell them, hey, guys, you know I made millions of dollar millions, three million, but the fifty thousand I took from you was the best or something along both lines. And great moment, great great moment at the end. But yeah, this brings up my third Michael Cain moment real quick because it is assumed that Freddy has won the bet by sleeping with Janet.

59:45 Michael Caine gets the news and he knows that Freddy will be coming over to his villa to gloat at any moment over this win. And this would mean Lawrence Michael Kain would have to leave lots at steak here. But this is a real actor's moment and I love this moment and it's not very long. When Michael Caine as Lawrence gathers himself and he's at the mantle at the fireplace since like the afternoon, and he's waiting for Steve Martin to come to the door, and he does his pose as a gentleman, as a professional. He puts his arm up on the mantle and kind of puts his hand in his pocket, and he does this thing with his face where you can see different emotions, different levels where it's well, he knows he's lost, he knows he's going to have to leave, but he has to accept it, and he's going to do it as a gentleman.

1:00:31 You see it all in his eyes, in his face, and he's just he's a little stoic at the same time. I just love that moment. And of course it's not Freddy that shows up at the door, it's actually Janet. Great moment, right, yeah, because throughout the film, Lawrence doesn't underestimate Freddy, but then he eventually does some regrets doing that, especially when he thought he had everything in the bank. Yeah, it doesn't he he has a line to that effect, doesn't he say the student has become the teacher or something that way along those lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's move on to Swiss Cheese and complaints Apartment, And why don't we call it Swiss cheese. Because although this movie is delicious, it does have holes.

1:01:14 And it doesn't have any of those holes. We just file a complaint with the complate department. So what do you have? Do you have any Swiss cheese or complaints this here? Yeah, just little nitpicky things. Always. I was just kind of confused watching every time Freddy goes out as this naval officer, he's wearing his naval uniform even though he's on what he calls MTL mental trauma leave. Does that make sense that every time he goes out he's still wearing his uniform. That caught my eye this time, Like, why not just dressed in civilian clothes if you're on leave? Right, that does make sense. He doesn't have to be dressed like that all the time. It's kind of funny, it's part of the con but when you think about it, he doesn't be wearing that every time he's out.

1:01:56 Right. Yeah, speaking of clothing choices, Steve Martin's bathing suit, what the hell is that? I get it. They're in the French riviera. I do not need to see that, and I'm expecting him to break out and sing word up. The speedo, the banana hammock. Yeah, agreed, it was. It was a bit revealing. Hey, if oh I put I think Anton's in the name of the actor? Is it Andrea or Anton the police inspector? It's Andre Anton's the actor. Okay, right, Okay? I was like, have I been saying the character's name wrong the whole time? No, I think you've got it right. Okay, So if Andre works for the police, he is the chief, like an inspector, things must be pretty slow in Beaumont, Sir Mary, as far as crime goes, like, because he's always there helping Lawrence.

1:02:44 Well, I don't think it comes off as a high crime area, right. I think he's got a pretty cuss shob and now he's making a little money, got a side hustle. He must be doing pretty well. Plenty of free time. Yeah, that just jumped out to me. It was like i'd understand if he was like maybe a lower level police officer in the town that was on Lawrence's payroll. Yeah, but he's like the maze, he's like the chief of police. It's just got to it's really funny. It is funny. It's not a big deal, but it's just got a nipicky things like, Wow, not a lot else going on in Beaumont soux Meyer for him to be worried about. Here's a complaint. Yeah. I probably should have said this in my initial thoughts.

1:03:26 They're at such a beautiful location. This is all shot on location, and I felt as if I wasn't there. Everything always seemed so cramped or so close. The casino is so small. There is that one scene when Freddy comes to the villa and is like, my god, this is amazing. That's what I want to see. I want to see how amazing this place is. Part of me felt like this should have been a commercial for the French Fury of Vie Era or wherever they were. I want to go visit that place after seeing that movie. But I don't get that. Yeah, they just didn't take advantage of the setting as much as interesting. Yeah exactly, that's what bothered me. I don't know why interesting, but yeah, okay, it just fell cramped. It's a valid point, and they're always at the villa, always at these scenes indoors.

1:04:15 Everything felt small. You have this beautiful setting, use it, enhance it. Yeah, little claustrophobic maybe in some scenes or Yeah, just I understand what you're saying. Because in a way, the location almost sells the con because here you are as a woman away and you're swept away by the landscape, and now this handsome man who comes in, who's a prince. It just plays into the con. Yeah, you wanted him to open it up a little bit more. There's even the brief scene that when that goofy part when Steve Martin's in the wheelchair and he goes flying down the stairs, but of course he's faking it, but he goes all the way down the stairs and lands at the beachhead and it's that little alcove that even itself is kind of closed in with the rocks on either side. It seems that's interest. I think that's a valid point. Now that you say that it didn't bother me personally, but I now that you say it, I see it.

1:05:06 I have some more master shots with the two of them laying on the beach and then close ups during their conversations. I want to see it. I want to see other surroundings. Yeah, that could have added opened it up to a little more of the romance. I mean, I'm never going to be there, so you need to do this for me. I have to live through these guys. That's valid. That's a good point. This is something that it's just nipicing that I got a little confused with it. Okay, what Janet was doing at first when she was this is just kind of on me, but still was confusing the fact that she was called the soap queen. I thought going into that meant she was a soap opera star. Right, that's funny you thought that, but it makes perfect sense.

1:05:48 Like she was this flighty actress coming over to you know. That's was the like, I don't know why, I just had that thought in my head, and I was like, oh, no, she was dubbed that because they thought initially she was the heiress to this laundry detergent fortune. But then of course they find out, no, she just won a competition. She used a particular laundry detergent to enter the competition and won it and won that trip. I was just literally like, who is she again? What is exactly her cover? When you hear soap queen, that's what I think, Like she's a soap like she's been on a soap. Well for someone that was on a soap opera, that would make sense for you to think that way. So I get it.

1:06:36 I had. I had a moment, a very brief moment. It's still a moment there. Yeah, I miss Port Charles Metro Court Lounge. The only other thing I was going to say Bill Bent under the category here of complaints is I just want to reiterate, I understand the movie stretches the suspension of disbelief here. It is a comedy. However, it's not about serious working conment like the cons themselves. You don't get too much into the Nedy Grady, which is what I do like about other serious, not comedic con movies, right, So that you kind of have to realize going in is that you're going to see some fun cons, but they are a little bit on the superficial level. You're not. It doesn't get too much into the all the maneuvering in different plays that a con man has to make or woman right in this case.

1:07:24 Okay, let's move on to Hey, it's that actor. So the segment with spotlight the character actor you have seen in many other films, an actor making their big screen debut, or an actor that makes an uncredited cameo. It's Hey, it's that actor. Who do we choose this week? Wasn't a lot to choose from? Yeah, I found one that I was She does seem familiar, and I found her in the cast list and I was like, yep, that would be a Hey it's that actor. So this week we have chosen Francis Conroy, who is credited as Lady from Palm Beach and it's a brief scene, but very fun. She's very good in it. It's mostly reactions from her in this scene because it is Freddy playing the role of Ruprectic, sitting at the table with the cork on the fork and wearing the eyepatch, going to the bathroom in his pants, and she freaks out watching this ac curb right in front of her. So.

1:08:16 Francis Conroy is an award winning stage actress. The pale, blue eyed Redhead also studied drama at Dickinson College and the Juilliard School. She was taught by Theater Great's John Houseman Marianzeldis. But here's her eighties snapshot. She didn't have a lot going on. She does five episodes of a mini series called Kennedy in eighty three. She plays a waitress in the movie Falling in Love in eighty four. She does an episode of the Twilight Zone in eighty six, an episode of New Heart in eighty six as well. She does episodes of Hill Streets Blues Rhyming Seal Crime Story in eighty six and eighty seven, then Dirty Rotten Scoundrels in eighty eight and Crimes and Misdemeanors. She's in that nineteen eighty nine. Her career got a lot more interesting after the eighties. She did a number of featured roles, often as eccentric, often disturbing mothers and matrons. Such movies would include Billy Bathgates and Of a Woman Sleepless in Seattle, The Crucible, Maide in Manhattan, Die Mommy, Die Catwoman, The Aviator, Shop Girl, and The Wicker Man. And by the Way, she's wonderful as the Joker's mother Penny Fleck in Joker, starring Joaquin Phoenix. Francis has also appeared several other TV series of late, most notably American Horror Story, where she earned her fifth and sixth Emmy nomination. She also has standout roles and How I Met Your Mother, Arrested Development, and Dead to Me, all good shows. So Francis Conroy is our Hey, it's that actor this week.

1:09:41 Yeah, that's why I didn't even recognize her. And then when I saw the credits, I'm like, wait, wait, wait, what Jesus, Yeah, I know, yeah, it was definitely one of those got right by me totally. Yeah, she's very young, honestly. Yeah, excellent actor's choice. All right, time to move on to facts and trivia. What are some facts in trivia we have from dirty rotten Scoundrels. You'd mentioned this already, but this film is a remake of Bedtime Story from nineteen sixty four, which starred David Niven and Marlon Brando, and as an homage to his friend and childhood hero, Michael Caine deliberately based his look and performance on Nivin, who had died five years before this film was made. Yes, he does very good. So the entire scene where Freddie is in Dale trying to remember Lawrence's name was improvised by Steve Martin. Frank Oz was crouched out of the camera range and tapped actor Anton Rogers on the foot to interrupt Martin when Oz felt he had gone as far as he could with the improv Love that.

1:10:40 That's cool. Yeah, that's like when you wish you were like on set watching that happen. Yeah, you kind of related to relate that earlier saying being on set watching Steve Martin just do his thing and you know, just letting him go. That's obviously one of those moments because he's improving that and he's brilliant in that trying to come up with the name. I might have killed a couple of takes if I was there. For sure. The nineteen to eight eight version Dirty Ron Scoundrels underwent casting changes. It started as a possible vehicle for Mick Jagger and David Bowie, who approached Dale Laanner to write a screenplay for them. Lonner, the writer, suggested a remake of Bedtime Story, and Lanner acquired the rights for the remake, but Bowie and Jagger dropped out to do a movie with Martin Scorsese. According to Bowie, they were a bit tweezed that we lost out on a script that could have been reasonably good.

1:11:32 So when Frank Oz first approached to Michael Kaine about the movie, he tempted him with the promise of a cozy villa in the south of France for the three month period of the shoot. Once Kin learned that the villa on offer happened to be conveniently situated between the villas of two old friends, Roger Moore and Leslie Brickis, he jumped at the opportunity. And for those of you who don't know who Leslie brickis is. He's a film writer or songwriter who did some of the songs for Willy Wonka and some of the James swond movies. Aha, this is kind of interesting to me. When Freddy is in the casino wearing that US the Navy uniform, he attempts to use a good Conduct medal as collateral at the roulette table and the dealer refuses. It turns out US military medals are made of low grade metals like pot metals instead of precious metals, specifically to prevent them being sold for cash. US military tradition states that the value of the metal is in the action taken to earn it, not in the material from which it's assembled.

1:12:35 I just thought that was kind of interesting, Like they purfosely make those metal just out of plane metal instead of precious metals for that very reason, so they can't be sold off. Like that's that's cool. It made a lot of sense. Well, Frank Oz makes a cameo in the movie. I honestly have to go back and watch it because I think I missed it. Yeah, me too. He's the police officer rushing at Freddy when he meets Lawrence at the airport near the end of the movie. Yeah, I gotta go back and check that out. Yeah, speaking of this is the first movie directed by Frank Oz that does not feature puppets. Okay, yeah, that's true. I guess at the time it was the first movie Yeah anything else again with Frank Osby. This was the third of five collaborations of Frank Oz and Steve Martin It's Crazy. The others were Bofringer, House Sitter, Little Shop of Horrors in the Muppet Movie. That's all I got.

1:13:23 Let's move on to box office, so Dirty Rotten Scoundrels was released on December fourteenth, nineteen eighty eight, in one four hundred and forty six theaters on an estimated budget of seven million dollars. It would gross forty two million dollars domestically. The movie would debut number five at the box office, behind Hits Twins, Rate Man, the Naked Gun, and Scrooged. Even though Dirty Rotten Scoundrels would make more money in its second and third weeks of release, it would never rank higher than fifth at the box office. It would stay in the top ten for a total of seven weeks. Dirty ron Scoundrels would be the twenty fourth highest gross movie released in nineteen eighty eight, right behind Biloxi Blues. Moving on to reviews. When growing up in the eighties, we would watch at the Movies with Geene Cisco and Roger Ebert to hear their reviews and watch clips of upcoming movies. Their review of Dirty Rotten Scoundrels was split. Gene called the two individual performances by Michael Kaine and Steve Martin stuck in a bad script, even though their performances were excellent. Roger found the performances funny enough to recommend the movie, but found the plot to be lacking. Rotten tomatoes because a Tomato Meter score of eighty nine percent with a Popcorn Meter score of eighty four percent. It also has an IMDb rating of seven point four pretty positive there. So that takes us to additional thoughts and questions. What are some additional thoughts and questions you have about Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.

1:14:50 I have to start with the big one or maybe obvious one. Yes, just thinking of con artist movies, the confidence men or women movies. What do you I think is your favorite or what would you say is your opinion on the best con artist movie. There's Focus with Will Smith and Margo Robbie. I do like that one. There's this Sting of course, a fish called Wanda Catch Me if you Can. Great movie. Great, John Williams score to that movie. Match stick Men, The Talented Mister Ripley. Great, there is a movie called Confidence. There's the Grifters, American Hustle, Six Degrees of Separation, Digstown. And then you can lump in films like Ocean's Eleven or like Now You See Me.

1:15:30 I think of those films as more like heist type of films. Anyway, just throwing some some options out there. Didn't know what your thoughts would be, you know. Surprisingly, the first one that popped in my head was match stick Men, because I didn't know what to expect with that one, and I really did like it. Hey it's got Sam Rockwell, yeah, of course. And I once ran into Alison Lohman, who was in that movie, at the supermarket, and she hasn't done anything forever, and I really wanted to talk to her, but I don't want to be creepy fan guy. I really thought she was amazing that yeah, But yeah, back to the Gon movies, got to go with the Sting of course, and since I love boxing movies, Dickstown is always a fun one for me. But everything that you listed, I don't think you'd go wrong with really any of those.

1:16:16 Yeah, pretty solid. Some of them I actually haven't seen. Admittedly, I'm not a big fan of American Hustle personally, but the other ones, these are great movies. The Sting is I mean unassailable, right, that's an all timer. I can't wait till we talk about a fish called Wanda, that's for sure. It's being of great comedies for sure. That for me is like I can't wait to just watch Kevin Klein in that Now a great movie. I mean, everybody in that movie's great. Okay, Yeah, what do you got? You got some thoughts? Questions? Yeah, I actually have questions because there is some things that I didn't understand. Do we know why Lawrence went to Zurich. I don't understand what that was about. But we know when he's coming back from Zurich, he runs in the Freddy, right, that's how they meet. But he makes that big statement like it's time to go to Zurich.

1:17:08 So I'm thinking, is that where the next big con is going? To be, but it's not. So why what did I miss? I agreed that was confusing. I actually went back to see because why was he on the train. Where did he go? And why did he have to come back? So I assume the sole purposes, that's where his bank is, that's where he does his banking, that's where he keeps all of his money. I mean, that was just it. He just had to go make his deposit. Okay, he'd done the con within the cold open also with Fanny of Omaha, and that's where he does most of his banking, gotcha. Okay, well, yeah, it's the eighties. He can't do everything electronically, so I guess he had to physically take it out there.

1:17:48 Okay, succeptable, all right, all right, go ahead, yeah, keep keep rolling, go for it. And here's my second question. Why would Lawrence withhold money from Freddy for the cons to know that he was going to piss Freddie off and then Freddie would somehow seek retribution, which he does. How did he really think he was going to work that he was not going to give him money? Okay, I taught you, and he was going to think he's so smart with how he's dealing with Freddy and trying to get rid of him. It just felt like that was a dumb move. For Lawrence, Right, I see what you're saying, Well, you're the opposite of me. That's actually a smart commentary because we're made to think as an audience. He does that with the specific purpose to drive Steve Martin out, so if he doesn't pay him, he's like, well, what is this worth? I'm doing this for no money and I'm being belittled. I have to play this routwreck character that's not even what I was groomed for. And I'm out.

1:18:45 I'm out of here. And he basically says as much. But then he doesn't leave, of course, because you could see the value. But you're right, Michael Caine should have seen because of Steve Martin's prior actions in the way he's been operating, that he would know that, Yeah, Steve Martin would seek retribution in a different way. He wouldn't just simply leave. Right. Part of me is almost thinking Lawrence could think, you know what, I thought he was going to be a hindrance, but he's actually a benefit. Maybe I'm making more money doing this ruse with him. But the fact that he tries to totally cut him off. That's not gonna work with Freddy. Yeah, he gave this movie some thought. Man. I was thinking about it a lot too, just on a think a lighter level.

1:19:27 I decided not to do I tried it. Yeah right, And that's the thing. It's just it's always weird how you approach movies and then we just get a different read from it. Yeah, that's yeah, that's why we do this. It's fun to talk about. You know, we'd have twenty people in the room that are all gonna say twenty different things. Yeah, Bill Bant, you don't have to go into detail. But I was just curious. Have you ever been the victim of a can or a scam? Luckily no, but I do remember the first time I got that email from the Jamaican Prints and he has all this money, who's going to give to me? I remember that and go, what the hell what is this all about? Granted, you know, you read it in for a second, you're all excited, like, my god, I'm gonna have all this money, and then you read it again and realize, oh, yeah, this is total bullshit. Oh sure, it was just so weird. Where is this coming from why am I getting this email? Because I got it at work when I was with the Dolphins at the time.

1:20:19 Yep. I was like, okay, I could see why maybe someone reached out to me about this. But then you realize if something's too good to be true, then it's fake, right, you know. Months later it was all over the place. But yeah, remember the first time I got that one, it was excited for five seconds and realizing, oh yeah, bullshit. Yeah, I've come close. I know in searching for rental problem like when renting looking for an apartment, there's scams out there. You can get conned out of money they asked for, like a deposit, and disappear if you're not careful. Yeah, and I have to admit this is tough online dating. Especially now in the day of AI. Be careful. Yeah, it's gotta be so much skin careful. Yeah, that's my advice. It's tough because you sift through a lot of fake profiles and you reach out and you can get strung along and then all of a sudden people are asking for money or it can get a little crazy. Let's just put it that way. You literally have no idea what's real. And yeah, I mean, there's all kinds of scams out there. But so here's my advice.

1:21:22 If you think you're getting conned or if you're getting you feel something, you just trust your gut and do the research first, because somebody else probably has been the victim and succumbed to this, and so it's out the information is out there, and so I've had to do that where I've just googled it. It's like, oh yeah, okay, that's a scam. And then you just now are aware of the telltale signs. And the only time I get an email, the first thing I have to do is look at the email address itself. Oh yeah, so if there's something funny in it, then I know right away it's a scam. But now even with phone calls and most of your phones are able to block it, but now they're able to copy the companies because I did get one where they supposedly use my credit card and luckily on because I was on my way the airport, I was like, I can't deal with this right now, I have to call you.

1:22:07 Back to that point when I was going through my head, I was like, yeah, something seems kind of off. Let me look it up. Online and they were like, yeah, it's a scam, right. So it's like, oh, yeah, we really got to be super super careful. If you're not sure with someone calling you, just go I'll call back, or its email. Just look at the common thing. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, triple redundancy. I always just check it a few times, do your research, and like I said, trust your gut. If it feels off, it's probably off. Anytime anybody asks you for money or to spend money, you always ask the questions. I think. The thing that just cracks me up about all this, I just think to myself, if they spent all this time trying to do this, imagine if they tried to do stuff for good, how much better we would be overall? Oh totally Yeah, you spend all this time trying to figure this out. Why don't you do something that's helpful for people, right? Trying to scam people?

1:22:58 It's so involved, Yeah, benefit us, not connas. When they play that long con especially, you're like, wow, they've invested some real time into this, like an effort, No kidding. Okay, time to move on to our rating. And here we go. So on a scale of one to five cons, what you give dirty Rotten Scoundrels. Bill Ben. I'm giving this a solid four cons. Four cons. Man, it's no surprise. I still love this movie. I laughed out loud several times. I love the performances. I find Glenn Headley very seductive in this. I think she's also very natural performer, so she was a standout. But Michael Kine is the pro I always learn from him watching him act. I thought the chemistry between Martin and Kin was wonderful. I did enjoy the one upsmanship throughout. Is it convenient? Yes? Are there too many coincidences? Yes? Is it farcicle without a doubt? But I chose not to dive too deep. I just enjoyed it on the surface, and I found it extremely entertaining, so I'm giving it four cons.

1:24:04 I'm kind of waffling between I'll be honest, two and a half and three. Wow. Yeah, I think two and a half stays. I would recommend it, but with reservations, it just takes too long to get going, and I just want to get to the point in the movie where Glenn Headley shows up because I want to see the two con artists work their magic, and I think that interplay for me, in the second half works way better than what happens to the first half. Sure, yeah, I mean you mentioned all those other con movies before, and I would watch all those before, I'd watch this one fair enough, So two. And a half for me, it'll be interesting when we watch a fish called Wanda being another kind of con men slash comedy. See how that feels, you know, instead of versus some of the other films that are you know, these confidence men or women films that can be more serious and that have real risk happening.

1:24:52 Yeah, that's true. If that makes sense, that would be a good comparison. That just about does it for this week's episode. As always, we appreciate you turning. Don't forget too far us from your favorite streaming platform. Leave a rating and drop us a review. Unless you're going to blast us, just stop listening. Okay, that's my advice. I want to learn more about the show. Of course you do, get over to all Gamis Movies podcasts for all the rat details. We hope we joined us next time, as we dive into another classic from the greatest movie decade ever at Maybes till then, Stay cool, Stay retro Later, Dudes of. All the lousy. She's disgusting, she's lying, she's deceitful, she's two faced, she's conniving, and she's dishonest.

1:25:36 Yes, this is super wonderful. Thanks for staying up with us. Good Night world,